Commitment

#1
My mate has been told by the CoC that the 2 week course he's booked on in lieu of camp will not be counted towards his bounty, despite the fact that he told the Sqn that he couldn't make camp due to work months ago, and that the OC approved it as a camp-in-leiu.

Does anyone know if the CO has any grounds to do this, even though my mates done over the 27 days? If he's not, anyone know if there's any hard copy evidence to back it up? (i.e: JSP's?)

Cheers in advance

GS
 
#3
GwaarSoldier said:
My mate has been told by the CoC that the 2 week course he's booked on in lieu of camp will not be counted towards his bounty, despite the fact that he told the Sqn that he couldn't make camp due to work months ago, and that the OC approved it as a camp-in-leiu.

Does anyone know if the CO has any grounds to do this, even though my mates done over the 27 days? If he's not, anyone know if there's any hard copy evidence to back it up? (i.e: JSP's?)

Cheers in advance

GS
PM MSR he is a fountain of knowledge on this

Failing that get him to have a word with the PSAO
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#4
Firstly, make sure "your mate" has got all of his facts straight, and that he has told the truth, the whole truth etc.

Has the OC approved him to do A course in lieu of camp or THAT course in lieu? If THAT course, then the OC needs to speak to the CO and make the case on behalf of the soldier. The CO should support the OC as long as the OC can give reasons why that course is of benefit to the unit.

If the OC has given approval for A course in lieu, but your mate has put himself forward for an underwater knife fighting course of absolutely no relevance to the unit, then I am not surprised that it has been declined. The unit will want to push him towards a course that is of benefit to him and them, rather than just of benefit to your mate.

Also, serial camp avoiders soon get noticed. Courses in lieu need to relevent and beneficial, not just a get out of jail option for camp. If it is the first time he has sought a course in lieu, then fair play. If he does it every year, expect more resistance.
 
#5
my unit has always been very helpful as regards camps for bounty.

But what is the course? Advanced needlework, or is it a career course?

I could understand the issue if it is the needlework course, or a Gucci adv trg course that the soldier has booked himself on.
 
#6
It's the TA PTI course. We only have one other so it's far from a 'would-like-to-do' course.

He was originally told that his PTI course would count as camp. It was the units idea to push him forward to do it in the first place.

I couldn't do camp either so I'm on Summer Challenge as an instructor, yet the Regiment deems this acceptable to use as my camp-in-leiu, even though I'm not getting a qual they can use.
 
#7
This kind of stuff really gets on my nerves. Would he gain anything from being on camp or is he not really connected with the Regt's main role?
 
#8
TA Regs:

2.098. Attendance at Courses or Exercises/Attachments
a. An officer on probation may attend a course or exercises/attachments in lieu of annual camp in accordance with paras 2.009b and 7.055.
b. Attendance by officers and soldiers at approved courses may count in lieu of attendance at annual camp or out of camp training for the training year in which the course is completed (subject to paras 7.014 and 7.055).

And then, amusingly:
7.012 - 7.015. Reserved

I think that The_Duke is right. If his OC has approved it, then it is up to the OC to fight his corner.

msr
 
#9
Camp is 2 weeks on exercise in Kielder(?) forest, scotland, so it's not as if he's going to get anything major from it so at least he'll get something from the PTI course he can make use of when he comes back.
 
#11
A similar thing has happened in my unit this year.
A unit run deployment was deemed camp in lieu as long as a formal letter requesting such was sent in to the OC.
Many did this, others thought a verbal agreement was ok.
Now we have the case were guys are scrambling around looking for other courses or trying to get time off for camp in Sept.
However, all ranks were made aware of the need to get it in writing.
 
#12
billypleased said:
A similar thing has happened in my unit this year.
A unit run deployment was deemed camp in lieu as long as a formal letter requesting such was sent in to the OC.
Many did this, others thought a verbal agreement was ok.
Now we have the case were guys are scrambling around looking for other courses or trying to get time off for camp in Sept.
However, all ranks were made aware of the need to get it in writing.
Why? If an agreement is made for some, surely you can't just revoke it for others who do not have a piece of paper.

msr
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
So not really similar at all. They were all told the conditions on which it would be accepted as a course in lieu. Some followed those conditions, others couldn't be bothered.

The guys scrabbling about are doing so because of their own bad admin.
 
#14
GwaarSoldier said:
Camp is 2 weeks on exercise in Kielder(?) forest, scotland, so it's not as if he's going to get anything major from it so at least he'll get something from the PTI course he can make use of when he comes back.
I'm not arrsed about your mate etc. But I am concerned that someone has moved the border. Kielder is in Northumberland, you geographically embarrassed heathen.

I bet you drink warm flat beer! Rant over!
 
#16
Why? If an agreement is made for some, surely you can't just revoke it for others who do not have a piece of paper.
The agreement was that they had to write a letter, so they didn't fulfill the criteria then did they?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#17
billypleased said:
Why? If an agreement is made for some, surely you can't just revoke it for others who do not have a piece of paper.
The agreement was that they had to write a letter, so they didn't fulfill the criteria then did they?
Billy,

As much as I agree with you, and as much as it pains me, they should be allowed it as a course in lieu. It is the course or training period that is the requirement, not the paperwork requesting it. If the unit decided that it was not appropriate as a course in lieu for a particular soldier, they should have made it very clear at the time.

Still no excuse for poor admin though, and of course it is all the fault of the unit, not Pte Fcuknuts who cannot be bothered to follw the most basic of instructions!
 
#18
The_Duke said:
billypleased said:
Why? If an agreement is made for some, surely you can't just revoke it for others who do not have a piece of paper.
The agreement was that they had to write a letter, so they didn't fulfill the criteria then did they?
Billy,

As much as I agree with you, and as much as it pains me, they should be allowed it as a course in lieu. It is the course or training period that is the requirement, not the paperwork requesting it. If the unit decided that it was not appropriate as a course in lieu for a particular soldier, they should have made it very clear at the time.

Still no excuse for poor admin though, and of course it is all the fault of the unit, not Pte Fcuknuts who cannot be bothered to follw the most basic of instructions!
Duke,

I get what you are saying, but the point is, when the course was offered, it was an additional commitment to camp, and was only offered as camp in lieu if a letter was put in, clear and simple.
The point I was trying to make to the original poster was that a precedent had been set in my unit. He does not say wether he had it in writing or not.
 
#19
The unit in question seems to be taking an odd position though.

Last time i heard, our unit was encouraging people to go on promotion/mil skills/MATT instructor course RATHER than going to camp (in the case that the individual couldn't attend both of course), as that was seen as more important to the unit.
 
#20
billypleased said:
Why? If an agreement is made for some, surely you can't just revoke it for others who do not have a piece of paper.
The agreement was that they had to write a letter, so they didn't fulfill the criteria then did they?
PTI... write a letter...

anyone else spot the obvious problem?
 
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