Commissioning of Warrant Officers into the AAC

#1
Dear sky-Gods

I need some info on commissioning of WO's from other Arms into the AAC.  Does it still happen on the ground side?  If so what do the AAC look for and how many vacancies are there.

Looking at the structure of AH regiments it would seem to me that you are going to need some good quality people to command the FOBs/FARPs/A1/A2 and I presume that most qualified pilot WO's are commissioned into the flying role.

Any assistance/guidance gratefully received. :) :)
 
#2
I know the MTO in 1 Regt is an ex-RLC WO who is now AAC badged. It is rare, but it does happen.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#4
Sloppy Link is right, at a rough guess there is something like a 50:50 split.  The reasons for this remain unclear!

I reckon if you want to join the AAC you should have:

a.  Good CRs!
b.  An interest in Aviation.
c.  Some skills that the AAC might be interested in, e.g Signals, Logistics (think DROPS), etc
 
#5
Thanks guys,

Is there a DCI/AGAI or a handy contact number anywhere, or is it best to phone Glaasgow?
 
#6
There is an AGAI that covers this and other LE Commisionins.   You are too late for this year (closing date for applications and interviews is 31 Jul).   E-mail me and I will send you this years AGAI and any other info I may have.
 
#7
Make contact with one of the UK based units is a good start, I'm sure Wattisham would help but take CBA !
 
#8
Thanks,

sounds dangerous i'll take the ballistic plates as well!
8) 8) 8)
 
#9
Without being rude, the AAC has enough 'other arms' as it is.  there are many fine Warrent officers within the AAC that deserve a commision but don't get it because 'other arms' think they know what is best for the Corps.  Well i'm sorry if your own Corps doesn't want you as an officer but neither do we. :mad:
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#10
No doubt this is going to provoke much abuse but...
" there are many fine Warrent officers within the AAC that deserve a commision"
I have to say I disagree.  In my experience the quality of AAC WO is below the Army average.  Sure there are some good guys and normally they get picked up but equally there are others (some now commissioned) who, frankly, are not up to the job.
Mind you the Corps also has an excellent track record of picking some utterly useless guys from other capbadges too.
 
#11
Well we will see at the end of the month just what the board throws up.  Latest poop is the Academy Sgt Maj at Sandhurst has already been told he is in, what exactly is he going to bring to the Corps, drill perhaps ? Probably end up at 4 Regt as they seem to do plenty of it !
 
#12
Oh dear!
Having just posted on MLs thread on FRIs...and banged the drum..on this thread I fully support him. Sumo, you need to wake up and have a good look around your Corps and I also suspect you have transferred in to be familiar with the Army average. On what do you base that statement?

The future of the AAC will lie in its core ablity to generate technical Aviation expertise in support of AH and the AM concepts of the Future Army. Do not lose sight of that and screw it up. This means taking your permanent cadre through to LE commission and using their years of experince and expertise (having trained them properly of course!). You either have the quality or not. But do not fall into the trap of thinking that quality will arrive on your doorstep after it has been rejected by other arms and services. I am well aware that many WOs in say the Infantry have their CRs re-written for commissioning in other Arms, having been refused by parent MCMs and put off by SROs.

On the threshold of becoming the key player in the future battlespace..do you really have a need for Infantry, RAC, (Academy SM!) or various other assorted cap badges, who will spend the first few years with you-a: relying upon SNCOs and LEs to educate and train them to function in primary Aviation roles, b: try convincing you that you have got it all wrong and you must become masters of Patrolling, c: hide away in training or other appointments, in case they cock up generic Aviation tasks!

Does the AAC really believe it has such a credability gap that it needs to supplement its LE cadre on an annual basis. If as ML states, the AAC has a sound base of quality WOs..utilise them. Bear in mind, if quality of permanent cadre was an issue for other Arms and Services..why are we not in the market! Does that not tell a story!
 
#13
I am not convinced Sumo on your logic. An officer (LE or otherwise) is there to COMMAND, not listen, adapt or improvise. That is basic soldier stuff. A key quality of an officer is knowledge, are you suggesting that a RSM from, say the RWF, has accumulated the Avn expertise (knowledge) of an AAC WO with 15 - 17 yrs of executing it day in day out. Hardly, these types normally end up in training cells, reverting to type.
REME ASMs might come close to understanding Avn, but many of those will struggle when faced withthe prospect of commanding a 6 point ALPC FARP for AH!
Clearly, THE challenge for AAvn in the very near future. You can ill afford to spend years in hoping some of these cast offs will adapt!
Do not put your LEs down, with many DE Capts and Majs short, many are starting to fill high grade SO3 & 2 jobs AND they have a very good grasp of the bigger picture. Indeed, many will eat young AAC DEs alive, when it comes to command, man / resource issues. All that comes from years of experience and understanding
AAvn, from the lowest rank to Warrant.
For many Cold War years, the quality gap you allude too, was a perception by AAC senior management that they needed to infuse expertise in the "All Arms Battle" (poor post ex report from say BATUS), but in reality these transferees and LEs, did not understand AVn in the first instance. Hence, the credability gap!
You are correct, there is a fixed mind set required, fix your minds on getting AH and Avn right for the future. This will be achieved by those who kbow it, understand and can lead / command others in it.
Beware of strangers bearing gifts as they say ;)
 
#14
I fully agree with both reality check and ML Handler on this one.  We do indeed have some outstanding "homegrown" Warrant Officers and behind them are a plethora of high quality SSgts waiting to fill their boots.  I can only assume that sumo is basing his bitter derision on members of his own or other flights.  I know for a fact that our ground WO's are very carefully selected and not simply promoted because they are old and smell of wee or are extremely adept at whinging.  As reality check said "have a look around the Corps.."  you will notice that the ground roll WO's are all pretty capable guys with a lot to bring to the table.

I hear voices in my head...
 
#15
Looking at the whole Officer issue:
The Army would save an enormous amount of money if it was to do away with the AAC Direct Entry ("true blue") types as they mostly seem to get to the end of their time and bang-out instead of undertaking Staff work - just look at how many of them are running now!  A complete waste of money spent in training them.

Instead the Army could rely on other Arms to supply the Officers for the AAC, bringing with them the wealth of knowledge, and commitment for a full career.  Baring in mind the junior AAC Officer doesn't do too well when it comes to CRs (due to the lengthy pilot training and time taken to get command appointments in a Squadron) and hence is left behind in the senior promotion ladder.

Thus the AAC LE Officer could slip into the professional aircrew bit, as they do and the Army would save some cash.

Off the topic but worth a thought.
 
#16
Nice thought Peanut, but no banana..

E3 officers to fill ALL the AAC DE slots :eek:. Bloody hell, that will create the largest internal market since, FJ Navs became WSOs and Airman aircrew didnt qual for FRI2!!

All that knowledge..mmm maybe not, what would a RLC Troop Comd know about Avn Tactics, Air Wpns systems, FCR, RFI.....blah. Admit, AAC DEs probably know as much early on and bless them, they have thier limitations (light houses in deserts, would not know what man-mangement and Groundcrew career was if hit was biting them in the ARRSE etc), but at least the AAC (LEs & WOs) can brainwash and control them (well sort of).

Imagine, all those other cap badges trying to run the AAC "In the Gunners, we did it (Avn?) this way!..No I am telling you, these Apaches are just like my old troop of tanks..this is how we should do it!..Can't agree old chap, treat the BLUH like DROPS I say..dead easy, cant see why the AAC didnt get right these last 30 years".

Absolutely the reason the AAC is in the situation today..all those officers who came to run the AAC as a Tank Regt, Inf Bn and Gnr Bty, who then went on to senior management posts, some of whom will still not accept the AH as something completely different  from a Sioux!!

If the AAC started taking 18 - 20 yr old, as officers and get them into cockpits earlier, solving the CR problem, AND stop recruiting them as pilots, if they ARE to do desk jobs! If they are to be PILOTS and FLY, then let them do so! Be honest at selection, tell them they are only going tp have a go at the flying bit for a couple of years, then its "off to JOLP for you my boy and SO3 Bergans 16 AAB, before ICSC and death by keyboard in JHC", the committed to Avn ones, might just put their hands up! The JMC candidates might just poke off to the other teams or the city.

Does the AAC really believe that the top 13% of grads and Sword of Honour winners at RMAS are going to transit through AH cockpits on their way to SO3 Butts & Ranges JHC, and make credible aviators. Er wrong..why have the RN & RAF gone the "get them earlier" way and reduced grad intake? Because chances are it makes sense!

An Oxbridge Blue in rugger and a degree in woolly mammoths..just the ticket for Apache systems management and AM tactics. Just the qualities required for a AH Sqn Comd  :eek: Or as you say if they stay that long and are not snaking Air 2000 stewardesses in the duty free shop in Alicante, before age 38.

Commitment from E3 officers...mmm, maybe not. Most come to accrue flying time en-route to the said duty free shop. Burnt all bridges with parent Arm as last COs MYA probably included "Nigels desire to fly, is obviously a clear indication of lack of loyalty to the Regt and his great-grandfather (bloody decent chap in India by all accounts), claerly throwing away his chance to be ACGS anyway and will be totally useless in the stables after 6 years away swanning around as a pilot chappy!..send him flying and get shot of the blighter".

The only real test of committment to Avn for E3 officers (and save some cash) would be selection for, transfer at Wings as well as selection for pilot training. That way the FRI carrots can kick in and they might just stay the distance and get paid more than the CO who gave him a jolly good ripping in his CR!

As you say, use the LE as the mainstay...but make sure you use your quality WOs in the process!
 
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