Commission confirmation

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by SilverBullet, Jun 8, 2006.

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  1. Hi All,

    Perhaps this has been answered before, and if so could someone please point me in the right direction.

    The first year of my commissioning is just up, so naturally I'm chomping at the bit for the next pip. Can anyone say definitively what the process is for moving this along?

    About 2 months ago my CO signed a piece of paper and sent it to Glasgow saying I was a jolly decent sort and that I hadn't touched the cadets. This was meant to be the trigger that starts the whole ball rolling.

    However, after a quick call to Glasgow they tell me that now the notification has to come from RMAS (The Commandant no less!) and should be triggered by your completion of Mod 5.

    I shall leave my personal feelings about this system out of this thread, but can any one tell me when RMAS notify Glasgow? Is it as soon as you finish Mod 5 or a year on the dot (providing Mod 5 is complete). As this is a new system does anyone know what system is in place to capture this info and deal with it expediently? Are we, the first lot through, going to be cobbled by the fact this hasn't been done before?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. The goal posts seem to keep changing. When I commissioned the rule was YOs Course and Mod 5 complete within 2 years and then confirmation. However, I was confirmed on the dot after a year having done only 1 module of Mod 5. By then the rule seemed to have changed slightly [excuse wording] to 'you can be confirmed after a year but it will be un-confirmed (whatever) if mod 5 not completed within 2 years'. Equally I know that there are ppl from my course who are still on one pip, 8 months after my confirmation. From a self, self, self point of view I fortunately now have all my boxes ticked, a scroll would be nice......... It seemed to me very much down to COs getting onto Glasgow, as yours has done so, you will hopefully pick up soon. However, get onto Mod 5 (3 weekends out of your life which you will never get back).
  3. A quick look at the Gazette from late May this year shows that one OCdt I commissioned (over 2 years ago) with was only confirmed last week, and most seem to still be on one pip.
  4. Thx guys...

    I was a little shocked at Abacus's comments in the other thread mentioned. TWO YEARS to pass probation for everybody?! WTF is that about? Why two years? I've done Mod5, my STA cse and annual camp all in year one at a reasonable amount of personal expense so it's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow if I still have to wait for another year to get the second. I'll have completed JOTAC by then!

    I think i've mentioned this before in previous threads, but the way this is panning out for people with ordinary jobs with standard 4 wks hols is as follows:

    Year 1 = RMAS
    Year 2 = STA Cse
    Year 3 = JOTAC
    Year 4 = Annual Camp

    I know I'm beating a tune on a well worn drum but where is the incentive to pack as much in as quickly as poss so you can actually spend some time doing the job on Camp?

    The question remains though... how does the trigger process work. I have done Mod 5 w/e's with different RTC's so how does RMAS collect all this info, and what triggers the letter/call to my CO that says unfortunately the Army can't think of a good enough reason not to give me my second? How long will the new process take (crystal ball-gazers out there, it's time to earn your money!).
  5. It could just be Glasgow dragging their feet.

    They do it for all ranks, with some of our officers waiting for 1 year past 'due' date for the next pip, or crown!
  6. Alright boys and girls, is there anywhere I can check the dates of Mod 5 courses. My local RTC has them planned for next spring and I want to start cracking on really. Have tried google (great to see soooo many RTCs have made the effort to go online! Well done boys and girls) and armyNet but alas no joy. Londist seems only one of two to advertise their presence on the net. Wessex, according to the calender at least, doesn't offer Mod 5 training but has at least made a bit of effort.

    I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you are aware of the internet and also of this site. Could you perhaps whack the 'inofficial, unconfirmed dates' in this thread or failing that armyNet or get a website I can find. Just a thought so I can plan my life a bit as opposed to


  7. Have you tried asking the Chief Clerk of your RTC? All the courses are listed on TAFMIS and TAPOMS and they all have terminals in their offices.

    London are just finishing a Mod 5 course. The final weekend is on 17/18 Jun 06. It is W/E 3 Managing Soldiers. You can do the weekends in any order, so you can start with this one.

    RTC SE at Aldershot is running another course starting in January.
  8. Your name and details are put on a scrap of paper torn from a notebook. If the DS remember, it is then passed to RMAS where the TAPOMS AO in the TA Cell checks it and updates your record.

    You can confirm that this has been done by checking with your own RTC who can look at your record online on TAPOMS.
  9. First of all, I think you are eliding the concepts of commission confirmation (ie, the end of your probationary period) with appointment as lieutenant. The two are distinct.

    Secondly, I can give you what I think the rules are concerning appointment as lieutenant. This usually serves to prompt someone who really does know the score to step in and show me up.

    Right. First, the probationary period. The minimum period of probation is one year (except for officers on FTRS, SSVC or mobilised service, who may be confirmed after six months). Probation ends when a "satisfactory report" about you is submitted and passed by the right bods. I don't know what the criteria currently are for confirmation of commission: they keep changing and no longer apply to me, and I'm busy with lots of megalomaniacking to do, so I can't keep up-to-date.

    Second, promotion to lieutenant. In my unit and many others, this usually happens two years after commissioning. I know that TA Regs say that university graduates may be promoted to lieutenant the day after their probationary period ends but the crucial word there is may. For the others, promotion may happen after two years.

    Bottom line: promotion for you may take two years, as it does for lots of other people, whether university graduates or not. So what? Being a 2Lt and Lt is the best fun there is as an officer: you're actually personally leading a load of blokes. Are you desperate for your TA career to finish as quickly as possible? Captain by RMAS plus three years, OC by RMAS plus five and then out by RMAS plus seven? Or are you racing to be a brigadier at 30?

    You need to cool your jets a bit, dear boy. You racing to die, or something?

    JOTAC is intended for officers who are on the verge of being appointed company/squadron 2IC. In my unit, at least, that happens at commissioning plus five or six years at least. OK, so people can do JOTAC a lot earlier than that (after 18 months at regimental duty or summat) but the reality is that for most people in my unit and elsewhere, appointment to 2IC at RMAS plus two years would be way too soon. Frankly, you need a lot of practical experience to do a decent job of 2IC, even if you were a Jedi at Sandhurst.

    The pattern should run as follows, I reckon:

    Year 0 = Sandhurst
    Year 1 = Special-to-Arm course and maybe a week of annual camp
    Year 2 = Annual Camp
    Year 3 = Annual Camp
    Year 4 = JOTAC
    Year 5 = Annual Camp
    Year 6 = Annual Camp
  10. Here's my experience

    Commissioned 1st August 2004, STA course Jan-Feb 2006. Promoted Lt in March with pay and seniority backdated to 1st August 2005 (grad). Served 1 year probation and had good OJAR in first year so presume that it's that that triggers the end of my probation. London Gazette is not up to date. Basis for this-I received a letter from Glasgow saying my commissioned had been confirmed at would be gazetted in April (when I was already at Lt)! Received Scroll dated April 2006 two weeks ago. I didn't do module 5 (not aware if I was exempted by CO) but was promoted anyway.

    Hope it helps you.
  11. Where does the Op tour fit into that - perhaps the army could refer to it as 'extended camp'?

    I can partly sympathise with Silverbullit's point, in that career management for officers often seems to happen by accident rather than any actual management on anyone's part (see topic on flat-spinning adjutants). It would be nice to see the criteria for promotion actually laid out (even if it is only regimental policy), rather than passed down annecdotally.

    That said, I believe attending JOTAC as a TA officer in your 4th or 5th year is a real 'force multiplier', to quote a hateful buzzword. So many of the regular subbies in year 2 after commissioning really didn't seem to grasp what was going on. Before this degenerates into another Regular vs. TA meeting engagement, I would like to point out that I believe this is due simply to being a bit older, and seeing alot more 'stuff' (mainly going wrong).
  12. I wish I was, or perhaps had been... :)

    So, as I silently predicted to myself, few actually know how the Mod 5's are recorded (bar the scrap of paper thing) or what happens to them there. Does a little flag pop up on an AO's 'Outlook' saying "2Lt Fatgit is one year old today (Hoorah!), get the Camp Commandant (no jokes please) to send him a card and a packet of shiny pips!"

    As for racing on to do JOTAC... Well, yes, 2Lt and Lt is a fun place to be although you do still command troops at Captain level. The range of jobs available on Op Tour to Lt's is limited in comparison to those availabel to Captain and above... and, I'm not getting any younger so an Op tour would need to be on the cards in 2008 at the very latest.

    For all of you that are yawning at this point, I know this is a personal case, and I apologise for bringing it up on a public forum. However it does link in with the issue of getting in courses and doing Annual Camp and experience commanding troops. Time is limited.

    Perhaps one of the issues that causes frustration is that coming from the world outside the Army (and in the private sector), we (I) am used to in most cases transparency of process and also contactability. It astounds me sometimes that we need to have conversations like this, as the information we seek is clouded by the MOD's invisible fog (I appreciate that is a contradiction). It is wrong to call it bureaucratic ignorance even though that's what it feels like, because someone out there knows the answer to these questions... you just don't know who they are so can't contact them for a straight answer... therefore what propagates is part myth, part truth and part wild fantasy.

    Surely a simple list saying for query X contact Y etc.

    Perhaps that's asking too much.

    Still, I can't knock the army too much... they let me in, let me do lots of cool stuff and pay me (occasionally on time) enough to blag a few grand more on my mortgage application!

    I'm off to sip sparkling wine at the HAC ball... I hope you all have a lovely weekend... and...

  14. Humph, I don't want to fight ya. And it seems we agree on the schedule. But I need to take you up on your rather conclusive "Wrong".

    When I said "JOTAC is intended for officers who are on the verge of being appointed company/squadron 2IC" I was merely repeating what I was told when I was pushing to get on JOTAC, and indeed what I was told on the JOTAC course by the people who teach JOTAC.

    The title of the course "Junior Officers' Tactical Awareness Course" is a good example of marketing by misnomer. It's not about tactics. It's about being a 2IC. Indeed, the guy in charge of the JOTAC course when I did it started things off by saying: "We were fed up of getting 2ICs who thought that their job was to understudy the OC and take his place when he got zapped. What we want is 2ICs who can do the job. That's what this course is about."

    I have to agree with Gassing_Badgers on this one. JOTAC is about practical stuff, not applying Sun Tzu to thumping Al Q. It makes more sense and is more appropriate, especially for TA bods (simply because they have spent less time as part of the Borg), to do it in year 3 or 4. Doing it as a 2Lt is a bit silly, unless you're a TA 2Lt who was formerly a corporal or something with six years' service and two operational tours under yer belt already.