Commercial shipbuilding - why not in the UK?

PhotEx

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it was another world....

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Yokel

LE
Anyway - what to make of this?

Amongst the announcements about naval construction made in November 2020, the Prime Minister stated the intention to build new “multi-role research vessels”. No further detail about these ships has been given, although more may emerge when the Integrated Review is published. Here we look at the background to this project.

Rest of the article - here.
 

Yokel

LE
FSS competition to resume

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“Shipbuilding has historically been a British success story, and I am determined to revitalise this amazing industry as part of this Government’s commitment to build back better. The Fleet Solid Support warships competition will be the genesis of a great UK shipbuilding industry, and allow us to develop the skills and expertise for the shipyards of tomorrow.”

The Ministry of Defence also said at the time that the competition to build the three Fleet Solid Support warships will help “revitalise British shipbuilding by requiring a significant proportion of the build and assembly work to be carried out in the UK”.
 

PhotEx

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3? Good luck with that! they were warned that the extra cost of a U.K. build would make 3 unaffordable under the current budget.

And were back to the £64million question, who’s going to build them, and where?
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Anyway - what to make of this?

Amongst the announcements about naval construction made in November 2020, the Prime Minister stated the intention to build new “multi-role research vessels”. No further detail about these ships has been given, although more may emerge when the Integrated Review is published. Here we look at the background to this project.

Rest of the article - here.

Replacements for Enterprise, Echo and Scott.
 

Yokel

LE
Replacements for Enterprise, Echo and Scott.

Who knows? You could argue that there is a case for British capabilities regarding the sea bed, Arctic, and civilian Oceanography. But where the funding and personnel would come from is anyone's guess.

The current RN hydrographic vessels were all built at Appledore.
 

PhotEx

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Who knows? You could argue that there is a case for British capabilities regarding the sea bed, Arctic, and civilian Oceanography. But where the funding and personnel would come from is anyone's guess.

The current RN hydrographic vessels were all built at Appledore.


Scott OSD @ 2022
Echo/Enterprise OSD @ 2028

Now, their replacements ARE actually the sort of vessel Appledore could (did) build, and the time frames right.
 

Yokel

LE
Yes they are/were.

I am sure that Scott was designed and built to commercial standards with a mercantile design - including her hull, superstructure, and propulsion. In the same sort of time period she was built, the Appledore yard was busy constructing things like ferries and chemical tankers for the global market.

A case could be made for increased hydrographic and oceanography because of climate change and NATO requirements in the Atlantic and Arctic.
 

PhotEx

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On ROPs
A case could be made for increased hydrographic and oceanography because of climate change and NATO requirements in the Atlantic and Arctic.


Think more along the lines of 3 common grey hulls doing a spot of flag wagging while supporting ROV's and AUV's. A sort of updated E Class.
 

Yokel

LE
Not commercial - but welcome.

UK to design new missile boats specifically for Ukrainian Navy

New missile boats for the Ukrainian Navy will be designed in the UK as part of a previously signed memorandum on re-equipping the Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Defence Attaché at the British Embassy Tim Woods said.

“These missile boats are designed specifically for Ukraine, so they will be original and will have a length of approximately 50 to 65 meters, which will provide a speed of 40 knots. It is planned to install artillery systems and missiles on them. It depends, among other things, on what kind of missiles are needed. And these can be short- or long-range missiles. This is the issue that British companies are considering right now. But these will be missiles of a new class, specially designed for Ukraine by the British industry,” Woods said in an interview with the Day newspaper.

He said that the first four boats will be constructed in the UK. At the same time, Ukrainian shipbuilders will be able to observe construction, learn and train.

Woods said that the second part, namely, four missile boats, will be constructed in Ukraine. It will be great for Ukrainian shipbuilding and also for the Navy, so these capabilities will be available in Ukraine.

The attaché believes the construction of the first ship will start early 2022.

Woods also said another option that we they studying has not yet been formalized, it is the joint design of warships of the British industry with the Ukrainian design bureau in Mykolaiv.
 
Not commercial - but welcome.

UK to design new missile boats specifically for Ukrainian Navy

New missile boats for the Ukrainian Navy will be designed in the UK as part of a previously signed memorandum on re-equipping the Naval Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Defence Attaché at the British Embassy Tim Woods said.

“These missile boats are designed specifically for Ukraine, so they will be original and will have a length of approximately 50 to 65 meters, which will provide a speed of 40 knots. It is planned to install artillery systems and missiles on them. It depends, among other things, on what kind of missiles are needed. And these can be short- or long-range missiles. This is the issue that British companies are considering right now. But these will be missiles of a new class, specially designed for Ukraine by the British industry,” Woods said in an interview with the Day newspaper.

He said that the first four boats will be constructed in the UK. At the same time, Ukrainian shipbuilders will be able to observe construction, learn and train.

Woods said that the second part, namely, four missile boats, will be constructed in Ukraine. It will be great for Ukrainian shipbuilding and also for the Navy, so these capabilities will be available in Ukraine.

The attaché believes the construction of the first ship will start early 2022.

Woods also said another option that we they studying has not yet been formalized, it is the joint design of warships of the British industry with the Ukrainian design bureau in Mykolaiv.
But these will be missiles of a new class, specially designed for Ukraine by the British industry

Forgive my scepticism, but really? A new class of missile will be designed specifically for four boats?
 

Yokel

LE
Something lost in translation there I think! The story was from the Kyiv Post.

I wonder which yard or yards to Ukrainian vessels will be built in? A length of fifty to sixty-something metres probably means a displacement of what? 700 - 1000 tonnes maybe? How does that compare with the OPVs built at Appledore for Ireland?
 
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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
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But these will be missiles of a new class, specially designed for Ukraine by the British industry

Forgive my scepticism, but really? A new class of missile will be designed specifically for four boats?

8 boats, 4 built in the UK, 4 built in Ukraine
 

Yokel

LE
Interview with the boss of Infrastrata


A quick quote from that interview:

Don't forget, the Prime Minister came down to Appledore when we acquired the yard and walked around the site. I had the opportunity to discuss the future of defence shipbuilding, but also overall shipbuilding, because, I think the niche that we're looking to exploit is not the one of the big two primes that solely look to focus 100% on defence. We've actually got five markets that we focus on: defence, commercial, oil and gas, cruise and ferry and renewables.

We're really looking for a nice balanced portfolio over those five different markets. So that we're not 100% relying on defence, because obviously, you get the booms and troughs in that defence market, which really makes it difficult to keep a stable workforce on go at all times. When you look at the shipbuilding sector, I think it's buoyant. Look at the commercial shipbuilding sector; I think there are massive opportunities in that. That'll be springboarding off the back of some of the defence contracts that are coming round. I think it's a great place to be in at the moment.

-------

The key thing at the moment, with the 120 government vessels over the next ten years
, is really to use those vessels as a springboard into the commercial market, so we can play both markets against each other as we move forward.
 
The more important part of the interview is that H&W appear to be installing a panel line (scale unknown) in Belfast, which is a good thing, cos they ain't doing FSS without one. It doesn't solve the people issue, but its a start.

Those 120 government vessels are largely small scale tugs, workboats etc, with a handful of slightly larger vessels like Buoy tenders, fisheries research vessels thrown in. That's the bit of the market he appears to be aiming at (rather than true commercial ships).

The big question will be whether they can compete effectively for those with the likes of Damen. If the answer is only with government help, then at some point, the cheque book will run out. You can't wing it and hope - the comedy that is Calmac and Fergies ought to demonstrate that in spades.
 
The more important part of the interview is that H&W appear to be installing a panel line (scale unknown) in Belfast, which is a good thing, cos they ain't doing FSS without one. It doesn't solve the people issue, but its a start.

Those 120 government vessels are largely small scale tugs, workboats etc, with a handful of slightly larger vessels like Buoy tenders, fisheries research vessels thrown in. That's the bit of the market he appears to be aiming at (rather than true commercial ships).

The big question will be whether they can compete effectively for those with the likes of Damen. If the answer is only with government help, then at some point, the cheque book will run out. You can't wing it and hope - the comedy that is Calmac and Fergies ought to demonstrate that in spades.
That brings back some memories :p
 

Yokel

LE
The more important part of the interview is that H&W appear to be installing a panel line (scale unknown) in Belfast, which is a good thing, cos they ain't doing FSS without one. It doesn't solve the people issue, but its a start.

Those 120 government vessels are largely small scale tugs, workboats etc, with a handful of slightly larger vessels like Buoy tenders, fisheries research vessels thrown in. That's the bit of the market he appears to be aiming at (rather than true commercial ships).

The big question will be whether they can compete effectively for those with the likes of Damen. If the answer is only with government help, then at some point, the cheque book will run out. You can't wing it and hope - the comedy that is Calmac and Fergies ought to demonstrate that in spades.


Presumably all Government owned will include things such as DEFRA research vessels, Border Force cutters, lighthouse authority ships etc?
 

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