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Commercial shipbuilding - why not in the UK?

Yokel

LE
Yet again you talk about war zones. The merchant navy doesn't do war zones. They deliver Ipads and cars and crude oil and whatever else people want to buy.

They are not the Grey Funnel line. They are not the Andrew. They don't do strategic. They don't belong to the nation. They aren't controlled by the government. They are private companies.

If you want the merch to be a strategic part of the country's assets then the government are going to have to stick their hands in our pockets and provide the cash to pay for it.

But what about the Gulf and other places they may be targeted? Surely many strategic industries are in private hands - all of them really including the defence industry and the energy and and telecommunications providers?
 
But what about the Gulf and other places they may be targeted? Surely many strategic industries are in private hands - all of them really including the defence industry and the energy and and telecommunications providers?
I don’t believe that there is such a thing as a “strategic industry”. If something is strategic, it’s the responsibility of government to provide it.

Shipping is just a part of a global logistics industry that is for the most part commoditised. No-one cares who moves their container as long as it is moved on time, safely and properly handled and the cost is cheap. Ditto bulk liquids, cars etc etc.

There are niche markets; shipping freight between Caribbean islands, for example. But these are utterly insignificant compared with the commoditised market.

There’s plenty of ships in the sea and plenty of shipyards capable of knocking out more.
 
I don’t believe that there is such a thing as a “strategic industry”

Whoa there cowboy.

You want to mosey on back to the British Airway's thread ?

I’ve explained my reasoning why BA is both a strategic asset and why the country of registration of its parent company is irrelevant. I’m not going to do it again.

Of course aviation is strategic.


For something that you now don't believe exists - You bumped your gums like a lunatic to the contrary on the above thread.

What has happened in the intervening 3 months ? Apart from from being caught lying.
 
Think of the most "strategic" thing you can. Now tell me who maintains it?
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I don’t believe that industries that exist in the normal business environment of B2B and B2B commerce are strategic.

Something like contractors who maintain the nuclear deterrent work in a G2C relationship to deliver a strategic capability which is a government responsibility.
 
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I don’t believe that a industries that exist in the normal business environment of B2B and B2B commerce are strategic. Certainly not a globally commoditised industry like shipping.

There are a (very) few exceptions, like the contractors who maintain the nuclear deterrent. But they work in a G2C relationship to deliver a strategic capability which is a government responsibility to provide.
 
Just out of interest, is there any reason we used STUFT and not chartered shipping in 1982? Politics?


STUFT - Naval party aboard, under direct military control, can be ordered into an active war zone. Domestic flagged and crewed.
Chartered - No going in an active war zone, directed by their shipping line on pre agreed contract. Often Foreign flagged and crewed
 

Yokel

LE
STUFT - Naval party aboard, under direct military control, can be ordered into an active war zone.
Chartered - No going in an active war zone, directed by their shipping line on pre agreed contract.

But six chartered vessels were part of the task group for operations against Saddam in March/April 2003, with a 'senior naval officer' and a force protection team embarked.

I have no idea how they dealt with things like secure communications or how they would have coped with a real threat as in 1982.
 
Against the roaring 40s, that would be fun!

If that were to happen then suspect we'd see more to shift South Africa away from communists, and Duerte away from dollallyness. A few J20s stationed in either would be quite the headache what?

Perth - Durban is 30 South
 
But six chartered vessels were part of the task group for operations against Saddam in March/April 2003, with a 'senior naval officer' and a force protection team embarked.

I have no idea how they dealt with things like secure communications or how they would have coped with a real threat as in 1982.

you mean the HMG paid for, British flagged and crewed Point class Ro-Ro’s?
RFAs in all but name.
 
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I don’t believe that industries that exist in the normal business environment of B2B and B2B commerce are strategic.

Something like contractors who maintain the nuclear deterrent work in a G2C relationship to deliver a strategic capability which is a government responsibility.
Subcontractors to the main contract-holders work in a business-to-business capacity.
 

Yokel

LE
you mean the HMG paid for, British flagged and crewed Point class Ro-Ro’s?
RFAs in all but name.

No, I believe only one of them was present. If my memory is correct there are six of them, but the terms of the PFI contract is that four are available to MoD and other Government departments. The seamen are sponsored reservists.

What was the metric used? To transport the vehicles etc for an armoured brigade?
 
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No, I believe one of them was present. If my memory is correct there are six of them, but the terms of the PFI contract is that four are available to MoD and other Givrrnnent departments. The seamen are sponsored reservists.

What was the metric used? To transport the vehicles etc for an armoured brigade?

only 4 Points now, two were let go.

nothing civilian went into Um Qasr when it was an active shooting zone.

and if you need dependable war zone shipping, Mearsk will do it.
 
Subcontractors to the main contract-holders work in a business-to-business capacity.
That’s irrelevant. Either there’s a government strategic requirement or there isn’t. The industry follows.

I don’t believe that an industry that doesn’t serve a government strategic requirement is strategic.
 

NSP

LE
Against the roaring 40s, that would be fun!

If that were to happen then suspect we'd see more to shift South Africa away from communists, and Duerte away from dollallyness. A few J20s stationed in either would be quite the headache what?
I'd say hubbing in RSA, given the toilet it's flushing itself down, would be an issue, too.
 
RSA by African standards isn’t so bad, and has some big plus’s, unlike the Sahel regions, it’s not got problems with Allans mates, and it’s not a big fan of China.
crime and corruption won’t overly over impact a container hub. You just Bribe the Wahbenzi to keep the secure ports operating smoothly.
 

Yokel

LE
Harland and Wolff are now recruiting in Belfast. @British_And_Proud are you interested? Any local rumours out there? They do seem to be looking to fill specific vacancies - senior roles.

Careers - Harland & Wolff

Here in North Devon, the local papers suggest that about five hundred people attended the open day at Appledore.
 
Harland and Wolff are now recruiting in Belfast. @British_And_Proud are you interested? Any local rumours out there? They do seem to be looking to fill specific vacancies - senior roles.

Careers - Harland & Wolff

Here in North Devon, the local papers suggest that about five hundred people attended the open day at Appledore.
I know they contacted a few of the guys I worked with last year, when I was in through Wood Group.. looking them to go fulltime as paintsprayers.

I have to phone my mate and see if there's any contracting work going at the minute. There's a Canadian ship in and a Stena boat.
Dunno what's happening with the 3 Cruise Ships yet although the 2 gantry cranes have been up and down the dock lately.
 

Yokel

LE
Are the cranes used in ship repair or is this related to possible construction work? When was the last time they were moved? I wonder if they are looking to fill senior management roles first as a prelude to bidding and planning? Have they held an open days for people like Welders?
 
Are the cranes used in ship repair or is this related to possible construction work? When was the last time they were moved? I wonder if they are looking to fill senior management roles first as a prelude to bidding and planning? Have they held an open days for people like Welders?
Both gantry cranes and all dockside cranes are still in use regularly, at the building dock in the main yard and down at the deep dock in ship repair at the end of Queens Island. I live directly under the cranes and I can hear the siren going off regularly, when Goliath or Samson move up the dock.

Goliath was definitely used last week to take a 50ton propeller and shaft off the Canadian ship in for repair at the minute, I'd seen that posted on an unofficial shipyard facebook page.

I don't know about welding positions etc, I only know that the yard had phoned ex painting sub contractors and asked them to go fulltime.
 

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