Comments on Prisoners needed

Discussion in 'Sappers' started by MFBF, May 24, 2008.

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  1. Am new to Arsse but have read through a lot of threads and feel this is the place I could get some decent comments (?). I am currently studying a degree in Criminology and have to write a paper on The state of todays criminal justice system and how do the public percive treatment of prisoners. I have asked around for opinions from various sources and quite frankly am threaders getting pink and fluffy answers " Bad start in life, cut them some slack" etc etc :x I work in a prison and know what a waste of skin most of them are, however, I cannot complete a whole paper on my personal thoughts because it would last one side of A4 (as there are only so many times you can write they should all ***).

    The last paper I wrote came back with comments like Facist state, Nazi etc etc so I would like a more balanced view which I am sure some of you would be only to happy to give. :D

    I am not a journalist, I served in the Corps from 83 - 06 so all comments would be gratefully recived and go no further than me.
  2. MFBF

    You'd be better off posting this in either the TA Forum or AGC as their are a number of PO's/Civ Pol who post in those forums and may be able to help you out.
  3. Then that paper should have found its way into the Dean's office of whatever school you are in.

    I have no idea how you feel that you will get a balanced view here, given that you will already be aware of the conservative leanings of soldiers.
  4. Baldrick,

    Thanks for the advice, however I am after comments that are impartial. I have asked for comments from fellow officers here and they tend to be of the same line. I suppose that happens when you work day in day out within the system.

    Thanks anyway
  5. My views.... Prisoners aren't punished for their crimes. They live an easier life than a family struggling to survive normal everyday life with sh1tty jobs, taxed to the hilt and kids to support.

    Maybe if the goverment stopped making jails like hotels with there 3 square meals a day, playstations, colour telly's, pool tables etc etc etc and started making them places of punishment again, maybe people will be loathe to go back to jail.

    Bring back the death sentence, bring back borstals and the short sharp shock, start up chain gangs and get the crims putting something back into society. Make it hard labour and maybe then some of the younger crims will see the error of their ways, doubtful I know but it would be a start. The majority dont fear prison because they probably live better there than they do on the streets. Having been in prison is a status symbol, not a detterant.
  6. Buggrit, you''ve got my vote old son. :D :D
  7. There should be no such thing as 'prisoners rights'. If you knowingly break the law you have given up all rights and should be treated accordingly. The prisoners are treated better than the victims.
  8. Prison guards in the US at gaols where they have tried moving away from chain gangs say that the prisoners are much more controllable when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. We have, however, gone too far.

    IMHO we should have a mix of te two systems. Those who misbehave should be locked up in solitary confinement with no entertainment, or be put to doing something useful. Those who show remorse and good behaviour should be allowed to put something back into society whilst also gaining skills which they can use to keep them off the streets when they get out. They should probably also be paid a small salary for this. This would provide both carrot and stick, and move away from the idea that prison needs to be entirely punishment or rehabilitation.

  9. Granted mate, but as you say, we've gone too far. Prison is for criminals, if you're a criminal you should lose all rights granted to you and you become a number, a non entity.
    Dont know if any of you have been to Dartmoor Prison museum. In the old days they had the treadmill. Kind of like this one

    but it was sectioned of in boxes so prisoners couldnt see or talk to each other. They did hour on hour off on the treadmill, on their hour off they sat and picked rope apart. This was done for 12 hours a day. Feckers would be too knackered to cause trouble after that.

    Back on track though. They say prisoners are easier to handle when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. Maybe so, but more comfortable than a hard working law abiding family?? Shouldnt happen.
  10. Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona runs the toughest regime possible, and he has no trouble. When they complained about the change in the brand of coca cola available in the machines. His solution was to remove the machines and just let them have water. When the jail ran out of space, he just put up tents. And they don't to get to wear their own clothes, just PINK coveralls. Proper prison system that.
  11. There we go - solution - get the prisoners on a giant treadmill to generate electricity. That way they are putting something back into society and being green too. Also keep our fuel bills down.
  12. Prisoners should be treated harshly, but fairly.

    Awake at 0600, andrequired to stand outside their cell, run, breakfast, 12 hours sorting recycling, treadmill for power or similar, 4 hours of study for self improvment.

    In bed for 2200.

    At any point they can return to their cell, and not work. This doesn´t count as a day off their sentance. They are their to work their way back in to soceities good books.

    Scum who are not that much of a threat to the community should carry out work around the area (picking up litter and recycs and waste from homes EVERY day (instead of current councils once a blue moon policy). This would be done for an hour or so a day, every day for years if needed.

    death penalties for those that are not needed any more. ie drug dealers; murders and gang members.

    If you break the law you have no rights. Certainly not to take the real victim (ie the Burgaled) to court because you fell over their coffee table as you stole their VCR (This has happened).

    More rights for the victim. ie self defence.

    That´ll do for starters.

    Society is a little bit Yin and Yang. If we have a soft and fluffy mentality here everyone has rights (the white bit) then we have a darker underbelly that develops underneath.. ie scum who think they rule the roost with no actual deterrant.

    On the other hand, if we have a black society of hard line punishment, the white fluffy happy soceity naturally follows. As the scum elements are either removed or destroyed.

    You canät have a fluffy and nice society where all are equal, blah blah. As the scum will run free..
  13. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    If all our prisoners worked 6-on, 6-off, 24/7 on treadmills to generate electricity for the grid, think of all the carbon we could save.
  14. In for a penny in for a pound :)

    The biggest problem with the current systems is lack of staff resources, the human rights act and Freedom of choice/Lack of respect for the staff that the cons can get away with.

    1, You cannot run an effective regime without a proper staff to Con ratio to enforce the regime. Some nicks are running with a ratio as low a 1:50 with the wings in reality being run by the cons not the staff. More staff means more searches, less trafficking, less contraband, less bullying and more effective supervision.
    2, Europe and the humans rights act has taken away the most effective disciplinary tool available to the system i.e. loss of remission through summary hearings. A con used to know if he kept a dirty cell he'd get a nicking and have to stay inside for another 3 days etc now he gets a don't do it again speech from a Gov grade. The human rights act also stops deportations of foreign prisoners to countries that have the death penalty. The nick Mrs Baldrick works in has around 30% of cons in the category and shipping them home would reduce overcrowding and allow staff to concentrate on the remaining inmates.
    3, Freedom of choice for the cons, in short if they don’t want to work or go to association etc they don’t have to. Balls! If A wing is on exercise then they all go, No work? No money, on this last point the MCTC has got it spot on as unless an individual as to be somewhere else he goes with the rest of the company to whatever they are scheduled to do.
    On the question of work, Cons should be doing something valuable with their time and of some value to the community. Nick’s are mostly self sufficient with cons doing the cooking, cleaning etc but with an increase in staff supervision they could be doing an awful lot more.

    Finally the staging system for privileges, All UK nicks operate some sort of staging system with a con going to a nick on Standard and then either moving up to enhanced or dropping to basic depending on their behavior. MCTC does it slightly different were the SUS going straight in on basic for the first 6 -12 weeks and have to earn every privilege as they go along. This IMHO would be a better option for HMP as cons would know exactly where they stood and not many would want to do a 10 year sentence on basic grade 
  15. JINGO

    JINGO War Hero Book Reviewer

    Kill them all.........

    No? Ok my own view is that prison should be a harsh spartan regime in a bleak and inhospitable area where they have to do useful work or starve. The fact is that prison works because when the scum are in it they cannot commit any more offences (except against each other and unfortunately Prison officers such as yourself. Thats where the death peanlty really should come back in IMHO).
    Simple facts are that if you invest in society then you have human rights if you commit crimes then you forgo those rights and can expect to be treated as such.
    The real problem now is that there is no punishment and the scum know this.