Comments on Prisoners needed

#1
Am new to Arsse but have read through a lot of threads and feel this is the place I could get some decent comments (?). I am currently studying a degree in Criminology and have to write a paper on The state of todays criminal justice system and how do the public percive treatment of prisoners. I have asked around for opinions from various sources and quite frankly am threaders getting pink and fluffy answers " Bad start in life, cut them some slack" etc etc :x I work in a prison and know what a waste of skin most of them are, however, I cannot complete a whole paper on my personal thoughts because it would last one side of A4 (as there are only so many times you can write they should all ***).

The last paper I wrote came back with comments like Facist state, Nazi etc etc so I would like a more balanced view which I am sure some of you would be only to happy to give. :D

I am not a journalist, I served in the Corps from 83 - 06 so all comments would be gratefully recived and go no further than me.
 
#2
MFBF

You'd be better off posting this in either the TA Forum or AGC as their are a number of PO's/Civ Pol who post in those forums and may be able to help you out.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#3
MFBF said:
Am new to Arsse but have read through a lot of threads and feel this is the place I could get some decent comments (?). I am currently studying a degree in Criminology and have to write a paper on The state of todays criminal justice system and how do the public percive treatment of prisoners. I have asked around for opinions from various sources and quite frankly am threaders getting pink and fluffy answers " Bad start in life, cut them some slack" etc etc :x I work in a prison and know what a waste of skin most of them are, however, I cannot complete a whole paper on my personal thoughts because it would last one side of A4 (as there are only so many times you can write they should all ***).

The last paper I wrote came back with comments like Facist state, Nazi etc etc so I would like a more balanced view which I am sure some of you would be only to happy to give. :D


I am not a journalist, I served in the Corps from 83 - 06 so all comments would be gratefully recived and go no further than me.
Then that paper should have found its way into the Dean's office of whatever school you are in.

I have no idea how you feel that you will get a balanced view here, given that you will already be aware of the conservative leanings of soldiers.
 
#4
Baldrick,

Thanks for the advice, however I am after comments that are impartial. I have asked for comments from fellow officers here and they tend to be of the same line. I suppose that happens when you work day in day out within the system.

Thanks anyway
 
#5
My views.... Prisoners aren't punished for their crimes. They live an easier life than a family struggling to survive normal everyday life with sh1tty jobs, taxed to the hilt and kids to support.

Maybe if the goverment stopped making jails like hotels with there 3 square meals a day, playstations, colour telly's, pool tables etc etc etc and started making them places of punishment again, maybe people will be loathe to go back to jail.

Bring back the death sentence, bring back borstals and the short sharp shock, start up chain gangs and get the crims putting something back into society. Make it hard labour and maybe then some of the younger crims will see the error of their ways, doubtful I know but it would be a start. The majority dont fear prison because they probably live better there than they do on the streets. Having been in prison is a status symbol, not a detterant.
 
#7
There should be no such thing as 'prisoners rights'. If you knowingly break the law you have given up all rights and should be treated accordingly. The prisoners are treated better than the victims.
 
#8
Prison guards in the US at gaols where they have tried moving away from chain gangs say that the prisoners are much more controllable when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. We have, however, gone too far.

IMHO we should have a mix of te two systems. Those who misbehave should be locked up in solitary confinement with no entertainment, or be put to doing something useful. Those who show remorse and good behaviour should be allowed to put something back into society whilst also gaining skills which they can use to keep them off the streets when they get out. They should probably also be paid a small salary for this. This would provide both carrot and stick, and move away from the idea that prison needs to be entirely punishment or rehabilitation.
 
#9
jew_unit said:
Prison guards in the US at gaols where they have tried moving away from chain gangs say that the prisoners are much more controllable when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. We have, however, gone too far.

IMHO we should have a mix of te two systems. Those who misbehave should be locked up in solitary confinement with no entertainment, or be put to doing something useful. Those who show remorse and good behaviour should be allowed to put something back into society whilst also gaining skills which they can use to keep them off the streets when they get out. They should probably also be paid a small salary for this. This would provide both carrot and stick, and move away from the idea that prison needs to be entirely punishment or rehabilitation.

Granted mate, but as you say, we've gone too far. Prison is for criminals, if you're a criminal you should lose all rights granted to you and you become a number, a non entity.
Dont know if any of you have been to Dartmoor Prison museum. In the old days they had the treadmill. Kind of like this one


but it was sectioned of in boxes so prisoners couldnt see or talk to each other. They did hour on hour off on the treadmill, on their hour off they sat and picked rope apart. This was done for 12 hours a day. Feckers would be too knackered to cause trouble after that.

Back on track though. They say prisoners are easier to handle when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. Maybe so, but more comfortable than a hard working law abiding family?? Shouldnt happen.
 
#10
Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona runs the toughest regime possible, and he has no trouble. When they complained about the change in the brand of coca cola available in the machines. His solution was to remove the machines and just let them have water. When the jail ran out of space, he just put up tents. And they don't to get to wear their own clothes, just PINK coveralls. Proper prison system that.
 
#11
There we go - solution - get the prisoners on a giant treadmill to generate electricity. That way they are putting something back into society and being green too. Also keep our fuel bills down.
 
#12
Prisoners should be treated harshly, but fairly.

Awake at 0600, andrequired to stand outside their cell, run, breakfast, 12 hours sorting recycling, treadmill for power or similar, 4 hours of study for self improvment.

In bed for 2200.

At any point they can return to their cell, and not work. This doesn´t count as a day off their sentance. They are their to work their way back in to soceities good books.

Scum who are not that much of a threat to the community should carry out work around the area (picking up litter and recycs and waste from homes EVERY day (instead of current councils once a blue moon policy). This would be done for an hour or so a day, every day for years if needed.

death penalties for those that are not needed any more. ie drug dealers; murders and gang members.

If you break the law you have no rights. Certainly not to take the real victim (ie the Burgaled) to court because you fell over their coffee table as you stole their VCR (This has happened).

More rights for the victim. ie self defence.

That´ll do for starters.

Society is a little bit Yin and Yang. If we have a soft and fluffy mentality here everyone has rights (the white bit) then we have a darker underbelly that develops underneath.. ie scum who think they rule the roost with no actual deterrant.

On the other hand, if we have a black society of hard line punishment, the white fluffy happy soceity naturally follows. As the scum elements are either removed or destroyed.

You canät have a fluffy and nice society where all are equal, blah blah. As the scum will run free..
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
If all our prisoners worked 6-on, 6-off, 24/7 on treadmills to generate electricity for the grid, think of all the carbon we could save.
 
#14
In for a penny in for a pound :)

The biggest problem with the current systems is lack of staff resources, the human rights act and Freedom of choice/Lack of respect for the staff that the cons can get away with.

1, You cannot run an effective regime without a proper staff to Con ratio to enforce the regime. Some nicks are running with a ratio as low a 1:50 with the wings in reality being run by the cons not the staff. More staff means more searches, less trafficking, less contraband, less bullying and more effective supervision.
2, Europe and the humans rights act has taken away the most effective disciplinary tool available to the system i.e. loss of remission through summary hearings. A con used to know if he kept a dirty cell he'd get a nicking and have to stay inside for another 3 days etc now he gets a don't do it again speech from a Gov grade. The human rights act also stops deportations of foreign prisoners to countries that have the death penalty. The nick Mrs Baldrick works in has around 30% of cons in the category and shipping them home would reduce overcrowding and allow staff to concentrate on the remaining inmates.
3, Freedom of choice for the cons, in short if they don’t want to work or go to association etc they don’t have to. Balls! If A wing is on exercise then they all go, No work? No money, on this last point the MCTC has got it spot on as unless an individual as to be somewhere else he goes with the rest of the company to whatever they are scheduled to do.
On the question of work, Cons should be doing something valuable with their time and of some value to the community. Nick’s are mostly self sufficient with cons doing the cooking, cleaning etc but with an increase in staff supervision they could be doing an awful lot more.

Finally the staging system for privileges, All UK nicks operate some sort of staging system with a con going to a nick on Standard and then either moving up to enhanced or dropping to basic depending on their behavior. MCTC does it slightly different were the SUS going straight in on basic for the first 6 -12 weeks and have to earn every privilege as they go along. This IMHO would be a better option for HMP as cons would know exactly where they stood and not many would want to do a 10 year sentence on basic grade 
 

JINGO

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#15
Kill them all.........

No? Ok my own view is that prison should be a harsh spartan regime in a bleak and inhospitable area where they have to do useful work or starve. The fact is that prison works because when the scum are in it they cannot commit any more offences (except against each other and unfortunately Prison officers such as yourself. Thats where the death peanlty really should come back in IMHO).
Simple facts are that if you invest in society then you have human rights if you commit crimes then you forgo those rights and can expect to be treated as such.
The real problem now is that there is no punishment and the scum know this.
 
#16
Baldrick66 said:
In for a penny in for a pound :)

The biggest problem with the current systems is lack of staff resources, the human rights act and Freedom of choice/Lack of respect for the staff that the cons can get away with.

1, You cannot run an effective regime without a proper staff to Con ratio to enforce the regime. Some nicks are running with a ratio as low a 1:50 with the wings in reality being run by the cons not the staff. More staff means more searches, less trafficking, less contraband, less bullying and more effective supervision.

Baldrick66 has it right, its about staffing, up to the riots of 1991, prisons were pretty tough and managed by staff however with the erosion of staffing post "fresh staff" and the inability of junior governors to manage (after the loss of the chief officer again part of the "fresh start process") led to poor policy's and thus poor industrial relations......the riots which threatened the establishments hold on law and order enabled the liberal left to impose massive changes to prisoners conditions and taking the power from staff, what you have now is a policy of containment . most staff now are uniformed warehouse men.
When I did my criminology its was excepted by those attending that the containment of the "criminal class" was the best and only way we can ensure security......it was also debated that allowing drugs in prisons also fits into the containment theory.
 
#17
buggrit said:
jew_unit said:
Prison guards in the US at gaols where they have tried moving away from chain gangs say that the prisoners are much more controllable when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. We have, however, gone too far.

IMHO we should have a mix of te two systems. Those who misbehave should be locked up in solitary confinement with no entertainment, or be put to doing something useful. Those who show remorse and good behaviour should be allowed to put something back into society whilst also gaining skills which they can use to keep them off the streets when they get out. They should probably also be paid a small salary for this. This would provide both carrot and stick, and move away from the idea that prison needs to be entirely punishment or rehabilitation.
Granted mate, but as you say, we've gone too far. Prison is for criminals, if you're a criminal you should lose all rights granted to you and you become a number, a non entity.
Dont know if any of you have been to Dartmoor Prison museum. In the old days they had the treadmill. Kind of like this one


but it was sectioned of in boxes so prisoners couldnt see or talk to each other. They did hour on hour off on the treadmill, on their hour off they sat and picked rope apart. This was done for 12 hours a day. Feckers would be too knackered to cause trouble after that.

Back on track though. They say prisoners are easier to handle when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. Maybe so, but more comfortable than a hard working law abiding family?? Shouldnt happen.
The fact is that I would love to have a system for prisoners like the one that you have mentioned. However, there is no way we could introduce something like this now. Mild punishment and deprivation won't act as an incentive not to go to prison like extreme punishment would, so you need to find another system.

This is where the logic of small rewards comes in. I'm not suggesting they should be given comforts equal to those of a family but eventually people need to be released back into society so there should be incentives for them to learn skills to reintegrate. This needs to be done on a reward basis rather than lack of punishment as the govt could never run punishments that are harsh enough.

Edited for being a retard.
 
#18
jew_unit said:
Back on track though. They say prisoners are easier to handle when they are given rights and conditions are comfortable. Maybe so, but more comfortable than a hard working law abiding family?? Shouldnt happen.
We had a very the same sort of problem to this in Iraq with the civi prisons. ICRC insisted that cons we fed three squares a day and were given fresh fruit, meat etc. Now bear in mind these cons were locked up by the Iraqi's not Brit forces for civilian crimes and now were getting treated better than the actual prison staff who could probably afford to eat twice a day and only saw meat when the ate at the nick! It was eventually sorted out with a bit of common sense and getting the ICRC to visit some local's homes to see the standard of living for themselves.
 
#19
prisoners fed only a nutrious grey gruel on basic.

If they want more they earn more to pay for it.

lumpy mattress as standard, buy a better one by working harder.

regular rubber hose beatings.
 
#20
I think its given that you can't stop murders, because those who carry them out are rarely rational or care to contemplate a life sentence as they don't intend to get nabbed for it.

So what about a sentencing tombola for all other offences?

Up in front of the beak for shoplifting for example, found guilty, and he gets out the tombola box and gives it 3 cranks on the handle and pulls out a ticket:

'Oh, dear, it's life without parole, Bwahahahahaha' or 'Lucky boy, fined £50 plus costs'

Would scare the sh!t out the petty criminal nuisances, the thought that they might get banged up for life for that handful of DVDs they just hoisted from HMV.

Imagine the tension. It would pack out the public gallery. They'd have to sell tickets for some trials
 

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