Commemoration of Black and Asian troops..

MoleBath

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
When will the government issue a cringing apology for failure to issue eye protection for senior officers at the Battle of Hastings ?

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Mbongwe

Old-Salt
who either have their own way of doing things, or don't bother themselves with long dead people they have no connection with whatsoever.
The first part definitely true, with regards to the second part, well, I think I every culture and sub-culture I can think of remembers / honours its predecessors and dead and its fallen warriors.
 
What attitudes have changed? We have allowed ethnic minorities that used to be kept off the front line to die en masse?

They remembered as are people from the colonies as I’m not aware of any ‘whites only monuments.’

so we now need to apologies that some ethnic minorities like those from Africa were used as Labourers behind the lines. Should we lament that as well as dying from disease as White Empire Troops did, they were spared being massacred in battle.

Chinese Labourers were the modern day equivalent of contractors. There’s monuments for them as well. Again though, should we lament that they weren’t made to go over the top?

Indian troops again did a great job. There lives weren’t squandered. They were just poorly led as the officers they’d trained with who knew the customs and languages were killed off and replaced with new officers who didn’t know any of these languages or customs.

because as we all know, white troops in the trenches had a great time.

The French of course had some great colonial troops who fought like lions and also suffered at the hands of the Germans because of their skin colour. I lament these guys.

just like the Germans prisoners they killed and the French civilian population they raped, killed and plundered from.

why does everything we do seem to revolve around American segregation?

the British empire at the time, the commonwealth and the U.K. today have been pretty bloody good at integrating people.

incidentally, I found this on YouTube and it’s not a coal miner 1 minute in.

That is quite remarkable and I'm quite surprised to see a black face in Victorian England.

Although, what with all the computer CGI magic around nowadays and knowing the blatant bias of the system, I wouldn't put it past someone to superimpose minorities onto old films in a desperate attempt to make our history more multi cultural.

They're already doing it with BBC history TV with a black medieval queen and Indian Oliver Twist. Then there's the blatant bs on the BBC history primary school website showing a sub Saharan Roman centurion.

A lot of people would happily re write history if they could, they're already trying to do it.
 

Mbongwe

Old-Salt
They're already doing it with BBC history TV with a black medieval queen and Indian Oliver Twist.
If it were the other way and a white actor portrayed Olaudah Equiano or Billie Holliday or any other famous black person, it'd be classed as white-washing. The media's in the midst of some real double-standards.
 

Poppycock

Old-Salt
About time Fijian Talaiasi Labalaba got the posthumous VC he earned with bells on; and probably one for his surviving Fijian mate Sekonaia Takavesi, who had joined Labalaba on the 25-pounder at Mirbat


*NOTE I think the lack of medals at the time was due to the politics of their being in Oman in 1972 rather than outright racial prejudices of the command (maybe)
 

Poppycock

Old-Salt
When will the government issue a cringing apology for failure to issue eye protection for senior officers at the Battle of Hastings ?

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Wasn't the government of the day replaced in its entirety as a direct result of that particular PPE shortage?

ETA
And ironically they were replaced by a new government who's forces had been flinging the arrows about the the first place! Elf & Safety gone mad.
 
That is quite remarkable and I'm quite surprised to see a black face in Victorian England.

Although, what with all the computer CGI magic around nowadays and knowing the blatant bias of the system, I wouldn't put it past someone to superimpose minorities onto old films in a desperate attempt to make our history more multi cultural.

They're already doing it with BBC history TV with a black medieval queen and Indian Oliver Twist. Then there's the blatant bs on the BBC history primary school website showing a sub Saharan Roman centurion.

A lot of people would happily re write history if they could, they're already trying to do it.
I agree about the tiresome rewriting of history that could picture England having a black queen in the Middle Ages or excessive numbers of black troops in a West Country regiment in France in 1917 but the idea of a black person living in an industrial urban location in Victorian England is actually not at all remarkable. The ports of Britain were packed with ships coming to and from every corner of the globe, those ships were by no means all crewed by stout-hearted, pasty-faced Englishmen, they were crewed with whoever the shipowners could find in whatever port they were in.

The ports of Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff, Southampton and London and many others would have seen many people of all races and creeds. In Wuthering Heights Heathcliff is picked up as a foundling on the docks of Liverpool, he is described as "dark", many people have suggested this might have meant he was Irish, I think it far more likely that it means exactly what it says.

If you'd asked me a while back I would have said my home town was among the whitest in the UK. I would have said there were no black people around in my childhood until a friend started listing names of mixed-race and black people that we grew up with, after a while I had to stop saying "Oh yeah, him obviously, but besides him..."

It even dawned on me that there was an Indian lad in my class at school, he was adopted I think, and invariably nicknamed Tonto, but he was just one of the many boys in the class, mostly from a working class background, and no one gave it much thought at the time, to the extent that I didn't even notice it until years later, which I think is how it should be.
 
I agree about the tiresome rewriting of history that could picture England having a black queen in the Middle Ages or excessive numbers of black troops in a West Country regiment in France in 1917 but the idea of a black person living in an industrial urban location in Victorian England is actually not at all remarkable. The ports of Britain were packed with ships coming to and from every corner of the globe, those ships were by no means all crewed by stout-hearted, pasty-faced Englishmen, they were crewed with whoever the shipowners could find in whatever port they were in.

The ports of Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff, Southampton and London and many others would have seen many people of all races and creeds. In Wuthering Heights Heathcliff is picked up as a foundling on the docks of Liverpool, he is described as "dark", many people have suggested this might have meant he was Irish, I think it far more likely that it means exactly what it says.

If you'd asked me a while back I would have said my home town was among the whitest in the UK. I would have said there were no black people around in my childhood until a friend started listing names of mixed-race and black people that we grew up with, after a while I had to stop saying "Oh yeah, him obviously, but besides him..."

It even dawned on me that there was an Indian lad in my class at school, he was adopted I think, and invariably nicknamed Tonto, but he was just one of the many boys in the class, mostly from a working class background, and no one gave it much thought at the time, to the extent that I didn't even notice it until years later, which I think is how it should be.
Many ships had Lascars seamen who worked as stokers in the engine room. Apparently they could stand the heat better than Europeans especially in the tropics. Plenty of them around seaports such as Southend.
 
Not as bad as this monstrosity in Nashville.

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Gen Nathan B Forrest in case you didn't recognise him.
I'd tear that statue down myself even though I have relatives who fought for the Confederacy. It's a cartoon and not a proper statue at all.
 
Is it just me that feels that the industry that had grown up around diversity and inclusion is creating greater rifts than ever before?
It's not just you who feels that way.
 
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I'd tear that statue down myself even though I have relatives who fought for the Confederacy. It's a cartoon and not a proper statue at all.
The “statue” is privately owned, and on private land, so it looks like it’s staying.
Here’s a photo of Gen’l Nathan Bedford Forrest to compare.

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A famous - or infamous - Confederate cavalry leader, notorious for the massacre of United States Colored Troops prisoners at Fort Pillow TN, in April 1864, and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in the Reconstruction period.

His Great Grandson, Brigadier General Nathan B Forrest III was killed in action in June 1943 when he was shot down over the sea near Kiel. His body washed ashore on Rugen in September, and his remains were exhumed after the war to be buried at Arlington.
Second Air Force, but flying as an observer with the Eighth - 95th Heavy Bombardment Group (Framlingham).
 
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I wonder if the BBC will explore why the Herero and Nama were pleased to see the back of the Germans as a result of the Allies' African efforts in WW1?
The BBC would have their heads exploding trying to understand what position to adopt on German (bad) colonialists (bad) bring defeated in SW Africa by South African (bad) forces. The South African forces appear to have been white (bad) but were assisted by Portuguese troops (good? Bad? Cranial pressure becoming unbearable).
 
That is quite remarkable and I'm quite surprised to see a black face in Victorian England.

Although, what with all the computer CGI magic around nowadays and knowing the blatant bias of the system, I wouldn't put it past someone to superimpose minorities onto old films in a desperate attempt to make our history more multi cultural.

They're already doing it with BBC history TV with a black medieval queen and Indian Oliver Twist. Then there's the blatant bs on the BBC history primary school website showing a sub Saharan Roman centurion.

A lot of people would happily re write history if they could, they're already trying to do it.
I doubt it.

why would two guys who specialised in filming the throng of people outside factory gates not capture members of the ethnic minorities who were living in the U.K. at the time.
I’ve mentioned my Great uncle who died at neuve chapelle in February 1915. He went through a rather well known orphanage system. His mum died c 1905 and it seems his dad couldn’t look after him, as his younger brother had to be looked after. Long story short there is a link between orphanages supplying child Labour cheaply to the Empire and he was sent to Canada in 1908 as a farm worker. But these things are forgotten now because he isn’t viewed as a slave worker. Any how he joined the Canadian Perth unit and volunteering was a means of getting back to Blighty.
indentured servitude and criminal transportation are two more often forgotten about by white middle class people with an axe to grind.

wrong type of exploitation that doesn’t follow their narrative.
 
When will the government issue a cringing apology for failure to issue eye protection for senior officers at the Battle of Hastings ?

View attachment 567459
Indeed, where is the recognition of the English losses and the corresponding Norman ones? Of course the Normans as winners ensured that all possible was done that English were eradicated. Seems things haven’t changed 950 odd years on.
 
As ever - poor history with a partial selection of sources to support a narrative. Reality is a mixed picture - definitely very different by WW2. Plenty of examples in 19c and earlier of officers being commented and not the rank and file, so it’s part of a continuum of some ‘being honoured more than others’ on occasion. But like others have said if you look for it, ample examples of Empire troops being honoured and commemorated by the Mother Country

CWGC attacked as another 'very British' institution like National Trust and CofE. Commonwealth, though they signed up as Empire dead from everywhere, India and West Indies Regt on the Menin Gate also large numbers of Indian and Chinese at Etaples cemetery. I had a few conversations with African WW2 Vets at the VE Day 50 events in London, they said that post independence in their countries they had been marginilized as they had served in 'colonial forces'.

BBC quite excited over this one, number one on news page at times, also CofE now wacist, BBC love to stir the pot! Country Life next on hit list.

Suddenly great interest in the little known WW1 war in West and East Africa.

It is clear that most posters haven't bothered to read the report - or at least the executive summary - or even the first three paragraphs, which I reproduce below. It principally applies to the Great War and for deaths of Imperial Troops and Native Levees outside of Europe (Egypt, SW Africa, Mesopotamia etc).

Founded over a century ago to commemorate the First World War dead of the British Empire, from the outset the Imperial War Grave Commission’s work was defined by the principle of equality of treatment in death. Whatever an individual’s rank in social or military life, whatever their religion, they would be commemorated identically – with their name engraved either on a headstone over an identified grave or on a memorial to the missing. This report finds that, although the organisation upheld its promise of equality of treatment in Europe, this was not always the case for certain ethnic groups elsewhere.

This report estimates that between 45,000 and 54,000 casualties (predominantly Indian, East African, West African, Egyptian and Somali personnel) were commemorated unequally.

A further 116,000 casualties (predominantly, but not exclusively, East African and Egyptian personnel) but potentially as many as 350,000, were not commemorated by name or possibly not commemorated at all.

Why are so many Arrsers being such Arrsers? Why begrudge comrades the commemoration they deserve?
 
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