Commando attached Para

#1
Gents

Can you please settle something for me. I am convinced that Paras attached to Commando units/Brigades wear the green beret with the Para reg capbabge( I think I remember a cover shot on Soldier magazine in the mid 80's) obviously any information recieved will not be used for walting purposes-well not by me at any rate.

Cheers :lol:
 
#2
Only if said Para had competed the all arms commando course.
 
#4
About 20 years ago there was an article about a PARA (Maj or Capt IIRC) attached to 3 Cdo Bde RM. It was complete with picture of him wearing commando beret with PARA cap badge. He had passed the AACC.

Note it is the commando beret not the RM beret which is blue in colour with a toombstone red backing for the badge.
 
#5
Inf/Mp is totally correct. I also can remember the picture and the story. It was a para captain attached to the cododos! Interesting article.... albeit 15 odd years ago!
 
#6
not too sure about this - I mknow of Para Gunners who transferred to Cdo Gunners and it was just a straight swap of berets as it was considered that P Coy AACC were equal to each other
 
#7
TheSpecialOne said:
not too sure about this - I mknow of Para Gunners who transferred to Cdo Gunners and it was just a straight swap of berets as it was considered that P Coy AACC were equal to each other
It's an urban myth, no AACC no green lid and vice versa. I remember seeing a Bootie officer in the Shot mit maroon lid in the 80s, I asked him about it and he told me he did P Coy for the craick of it - he already had wings up, and told me how everyone did a double take inc RMP who thought he was a walt!
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#8
Capt_Cuddlebunny said:
TheSpecialOne said:
not too sure about this - I mknow of Para Gunners who transferred to Cdo Gunners and it was just a straight swap of berets as it was considered that P Coy AACC were equal to each other
It's an urban myth, no AACC no green lid and vice versa. I remember seeing a Bootie officer in the Shot mit maroon lid in the 80s, I asked him about it and he told me he did P Coy for the craick of it - he already had wings up, and told me how everyone did a double take inc RMP who thought he was a walt!
True. When I was with them we had a REME Sgt who was para but failed the AACC, so there he was with wings & a navy blue beret.
 
#9
Well, way back in the early 90's i was at the shot (as a greenjacket on a RMQ course) and bumped into a RM officer who was doing the P Coy 'thing'..said to him, 'you having a laugh or what?' ...he told me that the brigade always sent a few bods on the course as a jolly....also met a few PWRR fellas who got sent there, seems like a lot of mobs sent people there as part of their reggie tradition or something?...anyways, the bootie said that he would never wear the red beret, just did the course cos someone had to...i have seen seen green lids with para badges but that was in the film 'Wild geese'...mind you, i did meet up with a para who had the dagger on his arm, think he must have been part of '148'?...what do i know, i'm part pissed now.........but what about the 'ox and jocks, 43rd LI,who wore the red beret with the LI bugle on a rifle green backing? ...can't really picture the bootie badge looking good on a red beret though.....oh s***t, i'm looking at sister sledge on MTV now..and yes, i would feck the lot of 'em....'brown sugar, how come you taste so good?'.......b*****x, it weren't sister sledge..my telly's just packed up and it was the AGC pie eater of the year awards!
 
#10
Capt_Cuddlebunny said:
TheSpecialOne said:
not too sure about this - I mknow of Para Gunners who transferred to Cdo Gunners and it was just a straight swap of berets as it was considered that P Coy AACC were equal to each other
It's an urban myth, no AACC no green lid and vice versa. I remember seeing a Bootie officer in the Shot mit maroon lid in the 80s, I asked him about it and he told me he did P Coy for the craick of it - he already had wings up, and told me how everyone did a double take inc RMP who thought he was a walt!

Not an urban myth at all, at least the bit about Cdo to Para, I read a doc from 7 RHA that stated that if you transfered in and had passed either the AACC or 4/73 OP selection you could bypass P Coy and got straight to BPC, I know of Cdo Officers that did that, however I also knew a WO2 from 4/73 that on arrival at his new post of BSM. he insisted on doing P Coy even though he didn't need to

As for your bootie with a maroon lid on, if would of had to have been in either 16 (or 5 if it was back then) to wear it as it is a Brigade dress, as is the Green Commando beret dress of 3 Bde
 
#11
wellyhead said:
Capt_Cuddlebunny said:
TheSpecialOne said:
not too sure about this - I mknow of Para Gunners who transferred to Cdo Gunners and it was just a straight swap of berets as it was considered that P Coy AACC were equal to each other
It's an urban myth, no AACC no green lid and vice versa. I remember seeing a Bootie officer in the Shot mit maroon lid in the 80s, I asked him about it and he told me he did P Coy for the craick of it - he already had wings up, and told me how everyone did a double take inc RMP who thought he was a walt!

Not an urban myth at all, at least the bit about Cdo to Para, I read a doc from 7 RHA that stated that if you transfered in and had passed either the AACC or 4/73 OP selection you could bypass P Coy and got straight to BPC, I know of Cdo Officers that did that, however I also knew a WO2 from 4/73 that on arrival at his new post of BSM. he insisted on doing P Coy even though he didn't need to

As for your bootie with a maroon lid on, if would of had to have been in either 16 (or 5 if it was back then) to wear it as it is a Brigade dress, as is the Green Commando beret dress of 3 Bde
Half right old bean, however, the ONLY way you get a commando green beret is to do the course, no course, no beret and vice versa (no beret, no course) NO ONE in 3 Cdo Bde wears a commando green beret without doing the course regardless if they're PCB or not. Which is what I wrote (tho not clear enough). Unlike 5 Airborne etc maroon lids get passed out pretty much to anyone. Even Para Regt Band (non BPC), att pers at depot (inc WRAC non PBC in the 1980s etc, etc, etc!) and Para Regt recruits prior to doing P Coy got a maroon lid (with a green diamond backing to the cap badge). Like you say, some courses, AACC for example are qualifying courses for PCB. Passing P Coy and BPC does NOT qualify you to wear the commando green beret, only the commando course itself can do that!
 
#12
well I definately know of dozens of para trained gunners that were given the green beret when the battery was re-roled to commando

also, is it not true that both p-coy & aacc are considered equal by the brass?
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#13
billyruffian said:
Gents

Can you please settle something for me. I am convinced that Paras attached to Commando units/Brigades wear the green beret with the Para reg capbabge( I think I remember a cover shot on Soldier magazine in the mid 80's) obviously any information recieved will not be used for walting purposes-well not by me at any rate.

Cheers :lol:
I don't recall ever having seen a Para Regt guy in a Cdo unit (ack some SOs at Bde HQ in the past). The SNCOs working at CTCRM do not wear the breen beret nor are they required to complete the AACC. I am aware that some RM Lts employed as Para platoon commanders have been forced (ordered) to wear the maroon beret although they did not complete P Coy. The other arms and corps will automatically wear a green beret, if AACC qualified, whilst attached to Cdo Forces. I agree with Capt C, no AACC no beret, I don't believe either 29 or 59 would allow a "transfer in" getting the beret any more than their airborne equivalents would.

IMD
 
#14
TheSpecialOne said:
well I definately know of dozens of para trained gunners that were given the green beret when the battery was re-roled to commando

also, is it not true that both p-coy & aacc are considered equal by the brass?
Do they wear the cdo dagger too? I bloody well hope not and their RSM/BSM should be tearing a new arrse to the cnut who has allowed them to wear the cdo beret!
 
#15
they wore the beret but weren't allowed to wear the dagger - the majority of the unit did the AACC and all passed. The irony is that the battery has been re-roled back to Para.
 
#16
Let's keep stirring this up -

I saw a Para Regt sgt on exchange as an instructor at Lympstone in the early 70s wearing a cdo beret with his regimental cap badge.

Royal Marine bandsmen are given green berets to wear ashore when on foreign stations.

The regular trg officer of an RA (V) unit I met did the AACC and wore the green beret - and then it was decided the unit would rerole to the para rather than the cdo role. He didn't do P Coy, but he did the para cse.

A RA(V) NGS major I met in the Watchkeepers pool told me that his mob did the para course after completing the cdo course - there just wasn't time to do P Coy as well. Of course, that is a cdo role unit, I suppose.
 
#17
As I understand it...

All ranks serving in 16 Air Assault Brigade wear the maroon beret, whether they have completed BPC or not. All ranks also wear the 16X flash and the appropriate DZ flash; only those who have completed BPC wear parachute wings.

All ranks serving in 3 Cdo Bde wear the 3X flash. Only those who have completed a Commando Course wear a (Commando) green beret (with their own capbadge) and, as appropriate, RM Commando shoulder titles, RN Commando shoulder titles, or a dagger.

Therefore, if someone were to transfer from 3X to 16X, they would immediately wear the maroon beret, as all members of 16X are so entitled.

If someone were to transfer from 16X to 3X, they would only wear a green beret if they had successfully passed a Commando Course.

Incidentally, as others have stated, there are a number of 'arduous' courses which are qualifying courses for BPC, including P Coy, Commando Course, and others.
 
#18
Surely the point here is what each signifies?

If you've passed an appropriate "selection" + BPC then you wear wings, but all personnel serving with 16AA wear the red beret: normal practice in Army to wear beret of a unit in which you're serving plus own regt/ corps badge.

Green beret, on the other hand, indicates (with dagger, if appropriate) a commando trained person. Yes, I know that commando trained personnel may continue to wear daggers when not serving with 3 Cdo Bde (same re wings for para trained), but the essential difference is that the green beret IS the key indicator (officially sanctioned since WW2) of successful completion of cdo training; unlike the red beret.

That said, do know of a few cdo trained types (mainly naval medics, and the occasional RAF FAC type) who continued whenever poss to wear "their own" berets when serving with cdo forces: got the boots talking and was a good ice breaker.
 
#19
On the point of many coloured berets, CDO Green and the Maroon variety, what is the most badged/ qualified/ christmas tree like person you have seen in the forces, few examples i have seen;
RE WOII with Para Wings, Green lid, CDO Dagger, Diver and bomb disposal badges on the arms...
AAC NCO Pilot, ex para apparently, both the Pilot and the Para wings.
there must be more odd or diverse combinations out there??
 
#20
gearupflapup said:
AAC NCO Pilot, ex para apparently, both the Pilot and the Para wings. I know of three former Para Regt blokes who transferred to AAC all became pilots IIRCthere must be more odd or diverse combinations out there??
As for odd or diverse combinations..........Bulford, 1985-6, outside the gym I saw a Major from the Royal Irish Ranger's wearing a Dennison smock with British, French and US wings scattered about :? didn't know whether to salute him, drop him or shake his hand.......so ended up laughing.

As for non Para trained bods wearing the maroon beret, don't like never have. It appears to have started in the early 80's or late 70's as there were plenty of REMF's cutting about the Shot in 1983 who had never been near P-Coy wearing the maroon machine. :evil: I still remember that attached units like 9 Sqn, 216, 23 PFA and others wouldn't let lads wear the beret until they passed P-Coy. Maybe someone can confirm this?

BTW........my Plt Sgt did the exchange at CTCRM and wore the green beret with Para Badge, not 100% sure if he did the AACC but knowing the man I'd say he did it so he could look the booties in the eye. There was also RM officer at 5 ABN HQ during the 80's who wore maroon with globe and buster badge.
 

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