Combined EU Referendum thread

[cpunk]

As Labour and the Lib Dems don't want us to have a referendum, let's have our own.

 

[actiontoday]

I voted to withdraw completely and I urge all right thinking British men to do the same

 

[Themanwho]

I voted to withdraw completely and I urge all right thinking British men to do the same

I did too, and I am now regetting it as any opinion you have is more than likely to be bolllocks.

"Right thinking British men"? You sad muppet.

 

[sanchauk]

"Customs union only". Which I take to mean, a NAFTA type arrangement.

 

[raggedy]

Winston Churchill avowed a United Staes of Europe, after the war, BUT, withour Great Britain being part of it, I think that says it all really.


Thompson.........An IMPERIAL measure of Gin......thank you.

 

[Strait_Jacket]

I don't know which way I'd vote because no one - politican or media - is actually disscussing what the implications of the treaty are. So, short of reading the entire bloody thing how do you make an informed decision?

 

[DozyBint]

As Labour and the Lib Dems don't want us to have a referendum, let's have our own.

Does "Have a customs union only" refer solely to an economic free-trade area?

 

[DozyBint]

...how do you make an informed decision?

Crikey! You'd give any pollster the screaming abdabs! Informed decision? Who do you think you are?!

 

[Airfix]

Winston Churchill avowed a United Staes of Europe, after the war, BUT, withour Great Britain being part of it, I think that says it all really.


Thompson.........An IMPERIAL measure of Gin......thank you.

Winstone also wanted tanks to be called landships - 'Royal Landship Regimant' anyone?

Not everything that came out of his mouth was a good idea you know

 

[Herrumph]

Assuming a customs union is what the British public voted for in 197whatever.

Anything else is constitutionally wrong

 

[Invicta]

As Labour and the Lib Dems don't want us to have a referendum, let's have our own.

Does "Have a customs union only" refer solely to an economic free-trade area?

To answer your question, yes - by and large.

Overall it would seem that ARRSEr's are far from pleased with our current relationship as a satrapy of Brussels. What we originally joined in the 70's WAS a customs union with a few bells on it. It's really since the late 80's that it's become more about political union, something that the UK population as a whole are extremly uncomfortable about and don't really want. Brown knows, but won't admit that a referendum on the Lisbon treaty would probably see a 60-70% 'NO' vote, which would seriously damage his standing with the EU and pro-integration countries. It may even force a vote of confidence in parliament, which under the circumstances he would probably lose.

 

[cpunk]

As Labour and the Lib Dems don't want us to have a referendum, let's have our own.

Does "Have a customs union only" refer solely to an economic free-trade area?

Yep, like the 'European Free Trade Area' which gives Switzerland and Norway access to EU markets.

 

[Biped]

The European project has a slogan: "Ever closer integration", the objectives of which are to create a United States of Europe along American lines. Nothing short of that will satisfy the proponents.

Where there is resistance to any aspect of the furtherence of this project, it has, is and will be brought about by other means, including covert.

This has been standard policy since the first resistance was met in the 1940's, and it is this policy that has brought us to the point we are at today, this being the non-constitution, that is actually the constition in all but name.

It is also an organisation of nations that excludes the Commonwealth countries, and thus penalises us.

It also seeks to force us to buy European military equipment such as the rather shoit Pinzgauer.

Further reading: The Great Deception - the history of the European Project.

Personally, I'd like to see (though it's very, very unlikely) a free trade area that does not exclude the Commonwealth, and doesn't remove the sovereignty of the Queen and British Parliament.

 

[Idrach]

Assuming a customs union is what the British public voted for in 197whatever.

Anything else is constitutionally wrong

I am sure annakey will be along shortly to correct us all ...

 

[DozyBint]

As Labour and the Lib Dems don't want us to have a referendum, let's have our own.

Does "Have a customs union only" refer solely to an economic free-trade area?

Yep, like the 'European Free Trade Area' which gives Switzerland and Norway access to EU markets.

I thought so - I just wanted to check before committing myself! Being one of Thatcher's Children, that one gets my vote!

 

[Dog-faced-soldier]

Listen, they are all foreign, and hence rather smelly and talk funny. None of them can win a war, on land or sea. Why on earth would we want to have anything to do with them. We should set up our own organisation with Great Britain and the Scandinavian countries as the only members and then sink the Spanish fishing fleet.

 

[Strait_Jacket]

...how do you make an informed decision?

Crikey! You'd give any pollster the screaming abdabs! Informed decision? Who do you think you are?!

Well, quite! There is alot of noise around this issue at the moment but very little substance.

As I see it:

Labour - Downplay and avoid discussing the issues completely in the hope of getting it through Parliament asap in case they get found out for a) giving away the family silver and b) lying to the country yet again.

Tories - Accuse Labour of breaking their promise for a referendum to make political capital while also avoiding the issues in case any of them turn out to be a good idea.

LibDems - Turn the issue into a straight choice of the UK being in or out of Europe which is completely disingenuous.

I would like to see a full scale debate in the media and Parliament actually picking the thing apart and examining the implications of it's various parts - and I say again - in the faint hope of being able to make an informed decision by referendum.

Until then I, and I suspect many others wouldn't know what they were voting for..

 

[OldSnowy]

Norway and Switzerland seem to do very well indeed - gaining most of the benefits without many of the drawbacks. That's the route to go for.

However, given the possibility of Mr Blair wishing to join the previous UK failures in the Brussels trough, though (think Kinnock (M), Kinnock (F), Mandelson, etc.) I would not bet on it.

 

[smartascarrots]

I have no real problem with greater cooperation with our European neighbours. I don't even see a certain amount of cross-border regulation as a bad thing, in this age of globalisation and I can even see the benefits of price and wage harmonisation across the trading block, even with the unavoidable amount of beaurocratic interference that comes with it. I can even, in favourable winds, see the attraction of a single currency in the world of international business.

But I do draw the line at a loss of sovereignty from an elected Parliament to an unaccountable body of political appointees, particularly where even the few who are elected by those they represent are elected with no true legitimacy. The Europeanists have shown time and again they can't be trusted not to take a mile, so in my view they should be given only that power they can't abuse too much. As someone who ought to be a natural ally, I've voted for a Customs Union only, my Federalist friends, and you've only yourselves to blame.

 

[DozyBint]

I would like to see a full scale debate in the media and Parliament actually picking the thing apart and examining the implications of it's various parts - and I say again - in the faint hope of being able to make an informed decision by referendum.

Until then I, and I suspect many others wouldn't know what they were voting for..

And (taking a giant leap into a parallel universe!) in the event that this debate and information is forthcoming, we then open the can of worms which is HOW the referendum question is worded - those politicians, they're tricky, don'tcha know! Then again, it's all immaterial given that people who watch Jeremy Kyle are allowed the vote!