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Combat jobs for women - coming soon. The Australian perspective

OzGrunt78

Swinger
First up, I feel it right to apologise as an Australian for the astonishingly naive, childishly impulsive and from where I'm looking from, f-ing dangerous decision by the leaders of this 'til now not to bad' country to open ALL roles in the ENTIRE military to females by 2016.
Yeah, didn't vote for them, and yeah I can't stand them, but as a professional Soldier they're my employer.
I've been serving for a few years as a grunt and then a grunt officer and my firm, scrutinised and I believe qualified opinion is no. No and no. Please.
The infantry platoon micocosm here is no different to yours in the UK.I've worked with Brit grunts and we share the unique, essential and delicate dynamics at play in our infantry units, which have over many, many years led to the extraordinarily effective violence capabilities of the moden Rifle Platoon. It's development and application in modern war would make it the most comprehensive human engineering project ever. Think of all the tweeks and finessing that goes on by commanders - most of it involves humping more stuff with less sleep - but please acknowledge it to fully appreciate what's been achieved, and then to be undone by a government - interestingly with not one vet amongst them.
Members of an infantry platoon know there is nothing like it on this earth (human speaking) and it's a self-sufficient, intensely loyal and can evoke a sprit which allows us to seek out and destroy the enemy with such ferocity and certainty - and go for Friday beers like it ain't but a thing.
Little things you accept as normal for grunts are often geniusly crafted to improve our primary role of killing dudes without hesitation, and with remarkably efficiency.
Think why is beating the living shit out of a brother soldier while drunk cos he said he 'got to know your sister' (in the biblical sense) quite fun but just a blip on the moral radar compared with theft or disloyalty amongst comrades. Why did I have to do 2.4km of Fire and movement one evening, alone, as punishment for leaving a dummy claymore unattended on exercise?
Why do (wise) junior private soldiers spend their first months in their unit quiet and attentive?
It's all part of the machinery which is so god damn perfect when you properly consider it.
And then these feckless CNUTS chuck some chicks in the mix like a grenade in a room clearance and move on without hosing it down first for humanities sake.
Currently, and unofficially or course, there's a solid estimate that 35% of soldiers and 40% of officers in Australia's infantry battalions who will discharge or resign their commission if women are offered the job of a rifleman/inf officer. Myself included.
Just as well we don't have a union and you get shot for calling a strike, cos we as a
Nation would be ripe for fu@king.
Last civilian challenge to my opinion was 'it's just your leaderships fear of rape and shit, right ?'
'They don't need to join a light infantry battalion to get raped.' Awful as it sounds it highlights the stupidity of this popular argument from the policy's supporters.
It's simply that this beautiful work of human evolution that's an infantry platoon will be tragically undone and pissed on for the sake of short sighted and astonishing naivity. Even by my government's* standards.
* same leader that on a media opportunistic trip to an Aussie FOB in Afghanistan listened to a soldier recount losing a friend days earlier in a gunfight and replied... 'oh mate. Shit happens though'
For real. China must be pissing themselves with laughter and salivating. I would
 
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...Just as well we don't have a union and you get shot for calling a strike, cos we as a Nation would be ripe for fu@king...
Rating your post "informative" as an interesting and passionate contribution to the "women in ground combat roles" debate. A detail but just for the record, it is factually wrong to equate a military union with going on strike.
 
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B

Baldricks Batman

Guest
First up, I feel it right to apologise as an Australian for the astonishingly naive, childishly impulsive and from where I'm looking from, f-ing dangerous decision by the leaders of this 'til now not to bad' country to open ALL roles in the ENTIRE military to females by 2016.
Yeah, didn't vote for them, and yeah I can't stand them, but as a professional Soldier they're my employer.
I've been serving for a few years as a grunt and then a grunt officer and my firm, scrutinised and I believe qualified opinion is no. No and no. Please.
The infantry platoon micocosm here is no different to yours in the UK.I've worked with Brit grunts and we share the unique, essential and delicate dynamics at play in our infantry units, which have over many, many years led to the extraordinarily effective violence capabilities of the moden Rifle Platoon. It's development and application in modern war would make it the most comprehensive human engineering project ever. Think of all the tweeks and finessing that goes on by commanders - most of it involves humping more stuff with less sleep - but please acknowledge it to fully appreciate what's been achieved, and then to be undone by a government - interestingly with not one vet amongst them.
Members of an infantry platoon know there is nothing like it on this earth (human speaking) and it's a self-sufficient, intensely loyal and can evoke a sprit which allows us to seek out and destroy the enemy with such ferocity and certainty - and go for Friday beers like it ain't but a thing.
Little things you accept as normal for grunts are often geniusly crafted to improve our primary role of killing dudes without hesitation, and with remarkably efficiency.
Think why is beating the living shit out of a brother soldier while drunk cos he said he 'got to know your sister' (in the biblical sense) quite fun but just a blip on the moral radar compared with theft or disloyalty amongst comrades. Why did I have to do 2.4km of Fire and movement one evening, alone, as punishment for leaving a dummy claymore unattended on exercise?
Why do (wise) junior private soldiers spend their first months in their unit quiet and attentive?
It's all part of the machinery which is so god damn perfect when you properly consider it.
And then these feckless CNUTS chuck some chicks in the mix like a grenade in a room clearance and move on without hosing it down first for humanities sake.
Currently, and unofficially or course, there's a solid estimate that 35% of soldiers and 40% of officers in Australia's infantry battalions who will discharge or resign their commission if women are offered the job of a rifleman/inf officer. Myself included.
Just as well we don't have a union and you get shot for calling a strike, cos we as a
Nation would be ripe for fu@king.
Last civilian challenge to my opinion was 'it's just your leaderships fear of rape and shit, right ?'
'They don't need to join a light infantry battalion to get raped.' Awful as it sounds it highlights the stupidity of this popular argument from the policy's supporters.
It's simply that this beautiful work of human evolution that's an infantry platoon will be tragically undone and pissed on for the sake of short sighted and astonishing naivity. Even by my government's* standards.
* same leader that on a media opportunistic trip to an Aussie FOB in Afghanistan listened to a soldier recount losing a friend days earlier in a gunfight and replied... 'oh mate. Shit happens though'
For real. China must be pissing themselves with laughter and salivating. I would


Be interesting to see if those resignation figures you mention actually happen.
 

OzGrunt78

Swinger
Course not. But some of the old hands have said it's a crisis of confidence and morale not nearly seen during their service.

The worst it got since I've been working was the decision to take the 3rd Battalion's (3RAR) para role off them and send them to Townsville's 3rd Bde.
..then again those blokes were a touch dramatic.
 

OzGrunt78

Swinger
Rating your post "informative" as an interesting and passionate contribution to the "women in ground combat roles" debate. A detail but just for the record, it is factually wrong to equate a military union with going on strike.
Fair point.
I'm surprised you lot could have any offical professional association, whatsoever.
Even the unofficial sites like this one are very dicey enterprises. There have been demotions, detentions and even discharges for unapproved social media posts and semingly benign media commentary. Then again there was the infamous 'Jedi Council' hoo ha. Google it.
 
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FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer

OzGrunt78

Swinger
OP - interesting post but if no-one follows up on this thread, it may be because there's an element of battle fatigue:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/women-in-front-line-combat-roles-by-2016.223708/

I don't disagree with your post but would people really resign though if it came to it? I suspect there would just be some grumbling and then soldier on to pay the mortgage.

Yes, there is the wind-down of tempo from a decade of half decent deployments - for Oz standards - but we've lost a good few NCO's and Jnr Officers to the lure of big $ in the mining industry. Post-service job ops are probably less of a factor in the decision.
Confuses me why you'd want to work up there digging yellow cake to ship to China, all for the V8 Ute and 3 trips to Bali per annum.
 
Fair point.
I'm surprised you lot could have any offical professional association, whatsoever.
Even the unofficial sites like this one are very dicey enterprises. There have been demotions, detentions and even discharges for unapproved social media posts and semingly benign media commentary. Then again there was the infamous 'Jedi Council' hoo ha. Google it.
I don't know the details but I had heard of the 'Jedi Council' case, in which some of the alleged behaviour was supposedly more serious than mere social media postings.
 

OzGrunt78

Swinger
I don't know the details but I had heard of the 'Jedi Council' case, in which some of the alleged behaviour was supposedly more serious than mere social media postings.
Certainly not the behaviour expected from grown up professionals, but nothing illegal, malevolent or out of place in most universities.
The interesting bit was who managed to come out the other end intact.
 
D

Deleted 4886

Guest
Course not. But some of the old hands have said it's a crisis of confidence and morale not nearly seen during their service.

The worst it got since I've been working was the decision to take the 3rd Battalion's (3RAR) para role off them and send them to Townsville's 3rd Bde.
..then again those blokes were a touch dramatic.
Just as a matter of interest how many of them jacked it in?
 

OzGrunt78

Swinger
Not very many.
It's amazing what a year left of mimimum service, good deployment potential and a posting in the tropics do for flaming egos. Good new CO also I'm told.
Some went so far as getting their heads down, staying off the piss and cracking selection to join their old neighbours at 2 CDO.
Of course not long after they relocated was there the hint they'd be further rebranded as 3Bde's new Ready Amphibious Group and the rumbling returned..
- Alas 2 RAR copped that honour.
3 does however have a residual and rather incidious issue from increasingly stark division between those who'd jumped and those who did not.
A mate there compared the divisiveness to the virginity status amongst a bunch of young lads.
 
Much ado about nothing. In nations were so-called "combat" positions are opened to women, they have never actually flocked to those positions and those who do are often fitter and more motivated than men.
 

rawfish111

Old-Salt
Much ado about nothing. In nations were so-called "combat" positions are opened to women, they have never actually flocked to those positions and those who do are often batting for the other side.

Fixed.

In all seriousness though. Throw a bitch in with a pack of hunting dogs and they don't hunt. (Not mine pinched off a mate)
 
Plenty of testosterone fueled answers but a distinct lack of figures. I had female under my command and they proved far less troublesome than men as they really wanted to be there and had to cross more hurdles than men to be in those so-called "combat" positions.
 

Moschops

Swinger
In all seriousness though. Throw a bitch in with a pack of hunting dogs and they don't hunt. (Not mine pinched off a loaf)

On the other hand, humans and canines are completely different species with massively varying behaviour. As arguments go, it's about as effective as proclaiming that rhyming names dictates correct sexuality (the ever popular "adam and eve, not adam and steve" rhyme from Yank religious tossers).
 

rawfish111

Old-Salt
Well i only ever met one woman who could hack it in my old trade, the rest just wanted to be carried but be there because it was their 'right'

How do they cope in the infantry role in your lot then? Do they take injuries from carrying the weight or does the rest of the section carry it for them? Glibly put i know but serious question.
 

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