Colours - or have you just got a flag

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Strikesure, Jun 6, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Ain't life grand out there in the likes of 3 PWRR - more battle honours than the Deuxieme Regiment de Fromage Mangent Surrender Sainges (O level pass with a C but I recon I improved my chances with Odette during the oral bit) - but for us scum nothing, not a one - and I know that there are masses to spare, even though the blokes wearing exactly the same capbadge I now wear completed both the Long Combat courses.

    Anyone out there really know why we have a flag thing and, more importantly, why/who stopped us having the real thing.

    P.S. any one off to the troop? Irish Guards, so guaranteed chaos at the right forms "Jeezus f**k, yer mother is a priesthole, get orf my boots yer f**ker"
  2. Where can I get a couple of pints of whatever it is you've been drinking?
  3. WTF?????
  4. After some sifting after the grenade went off in the alphabet soup factory I deduced your question was:

    "Why do some TA Bns only have flags, and not colours."

    The anwser I think is that some companies still have the right to bear colours, some companies refuse colours, and some units have "Colours" of another type.

    For example, the Duke of Connaught's Own company of the PWRR retain the colours of 6/7 PWRR, while 3 PWRR is the successor Bn to 5 PWRR, and her colours simply changed numbers ISTR.

    However, the RRV has a flag, partially the lack of colours I think (does the RGBW Coy retain the 2 RGBW Colours?), and partially because the future members of the Colour bearing 7th Rifles refused to have a Colour. (Aside: Does the London Regiment have Colours?)

    RA Regiments Colours are their guns (yes, you Salute the Gun on parade), so they have Regimental flags.
  5. PS I recognise the 2nd Regiment of Cheese Eating Surrender Monkies. I take it this was a Babelfish translation?
  6. ISTR that as the current London Regiment is actually a new one, we have no Battle Honours.

    The RGJ have neither colours or flags: the capbadge serves as such ( which is why I hope a certain young Fusilier gets the entire book launched at him by the Adj just prior to him exiting stage left sans bounty.

    I hope he has permanently damaged his hands when breaking the windows. Allegedly. )

    Go Adj.
  7. Strikesure,

    My understanding was that despite the Londons being the first multi-capbadge regiment to stand alone in the Army List, some desk based rubber johnny at Whitehall decided that when it comes to the questions of battle honours on Colours - multi-capbadged units do not warrant the same rights accorded to other infantry regiments.

    The four original capbadges of the Londons - PWRR, RRF, London Scots and London Irish all shared 'South Africa 1900-02' through the predecessor Volunteer regiments.

    In the Great War the 7th Bn. Middlesex Regiment, the 1st-4th Bns the London Regiment, 14th Bn London Regiment and 18th Bn London Regiment) served in the 56th (1st London) Div and 47th (2nd London) Div earning dozens of battle honours from the Western Front - Ypres and the Somme, the Dardenelles and Palestine.

    In the 2nd World War, the 7th Middlesex, 8th Royal Fusiliers, the London Jocks and the London Irish served in France with the BEF in France, North Africa, Sicily, Italy and NW Europe and again earned battle honours including Dunkirk, Wadi Akarit, El Alamein, Salerno, Monte Camino, Anzio and Caen. In fact 7MX, who served with the famous 51st (Highland) Division, saw more active service and won more battle honours then any other Middlesex Regiment battalion - regular or territorial.

    So you could say that Whitehall could have been spoilt for choice when it came to selecting battle honours for the colours. I seem to remember the Hon Cols tried to get 5 or 6 representative honours for each company and the battle honour 'South Africa 1900-02' to represent all four companies. Like I say - this was turned down in favour of the current colours carried.

    SS - of course having said all that - there is one battle honour on the Colours - do you know where it is?
  8. would that battle honour be on the London Scottish capbagdge by any chance? South Africa 1900-02
  9. Yes, I am very sorry about all that - it was a long weekend and a coffee-fueled day that seemed to never end. I'll try to translate the stream of consciousness rubbish that I banged out yesterday.

    The point really was that those Bn's who are 3rd or 4th Bns of any regular regiment are entitled to colours - which is a spot on, however, Bns such as the Londons are not. The London Regiment is a new creation binding together different capbadges and, arguably, so are most of the current regualar army regiments yet they get colours and we don't (was this the case for the EER etc?) . The underlying slight is to those capbadges that still exist in the same form as those worn by the soldiers who earned the battle honours scrapping it out in Arras and up Italy - indeeed if you stuck a present day London Jock in No2s into the 1st Bn in the first world war he'd be recognised (and beasted for not having an improbably large 'tache) which can not be said for most modern day regiments. I accept that these things evolve and that's how it should be - but why not us (after all where are we to sew our new Iraq battle honours)? And who said not us?

    Good lord look what a night of sleep and some cherios does to a man.
  10. B-B,
    intreging, spill the beans on the young Fusilier, and more importantly his mistake.

    Diehard, are you sure those things we carry are colours - I'd be suprised if they are really called that - more likly to be a flag (with a NATO stock number to boot). Incidentally, no go on tell me where the battle honour is - as you can see I don't get too close to these things too often but the next time they're out I'll have a look.

    If we need some unit cohesion in any multicapbadged regiment then operational tours togthher are the thing but having a set of colours that really reflect the strenghts of the regiment would be a great asset - that's why we troop the things.

    Any one got any feel of what happened to the other multicapbadged regiments.
  11. I thought the multi capbadged battalions were for the chop .I know the royal rifle volunters are .
  12. London Regiment aka 6th Guards may be multicapbadged (but I suspect will adopt the London Regiment cabadge on a Guards Beret).

    Some Bns may retain an old coy with a different capbadge. For example 4 RRF may have a (Durham) LI coy, the RRV may retain an LI coy if the RGJ successfully fights off the amalgamation into the Rifles etc.

    My query is what will happen in the West Midlands. 5 LI included a WFR coy for a while etc. 4th Mercian is looking rather large....
  13. One for PMs, SS... on the way shortly..

  14. I remember seeing a piccy in Soldier Magazine in the 90's showing the London's being presented with new colours
  15. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer


    I'm surprized you are bothered about colours and flags. When the LSRV was formed it did not have colours because Lord Elcho felt they were outmoded, I think he was right. I think it was a retrograde step when the Scottish bowed to Whitehal pressure and agread to have colours.

    Mind you I also think wearing white belts in No2 dress with a 'Kilt Elcho' is not right. Its supposed to be cam.