Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Jun 11, 2007.
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I welcome Colin Powells speaking out against the injustice of locking people up without trial. However, taking the highlighted part of His offerings into consideration, there could be a perception that He is demanding the right thing for the wrong reasons.
"States which demonstrate a high degree of respect for human rights are likeliest to contribute to international security and well-being. "
Colin Powell, 31 March 2003
United States Secretary of State
Guantánamo was built on some very convenient legal opinions that were highly always questionable and are now shown to be pure fiction.
If in a deep and steep sided hole, stop digging.
sven I tend to disagree, he is stating that they need due process because some people are putting people in Guantanamo to cover up their own actions not because they deserve to be there. The reason for due process is so that authorities cannot do that.
"he is stating that they need due process because some people are putting people in Guantanamo to cover up their own actions not because they deserve to be there. The reason for due process is so that authorities cannot do that. "
Therefore, if You take His comment to its logical conclusion, He would support Guantanamos ethos if the above wasn't happening. His reasoning is therefore flawed, the camp should be closed simply because it is wrong to incarcerate peole without giving them their day in court
. . . and that has been obvious since day 1, to any clear headed person with a sense of decency.
Which rules out the incumbent president of the USA, and our lap-dog PM, since B'liar colludes in the illegal arrest, detention, interrogation (and - dare we say it - torture?) of so-called 'suspects'.
I hate to be a defender of Blair (I never thought it would happen) but I am sure that he has spoken out about 'Gitmo'. But that aside I couldn't agree with Colin Powell more - it has only ever created a rod with which the Arab nations can beat the USA. Right to a fair trial is part of the essence of the USA justice system - Stop it now. Hold trials in camera if necessary but subject these individuals to the criminal justice system.
Maybe if you take that quote on its own but if you read the rest of the article inc my bold he is also saying that that is what the justice system is for; to deal with criminals and put them on trial. Further to that he is also saying that it does not look good if a country like the US cannot follow the rule of law. All of the arguements that have already been given for the closure of guantanamo.
Words are cheap.
He has tolerated (or colluded in) extraordinary rendition, and extraordinary rendition = flying idividuals who have been arrested without due process, to countries where they can be 'legally' tortured.
That is no way to hold the moral high ground: say one thing, do another.
Given that Colin Powell has fought for those things which the Founding Fathers said they believed in (such as due process and the rule of Law), been shelled by his own side, held the second highest military office in the U.S AND put his retirement job on the line for his beliefs I think a few folk may start listening.
Good on yer General, hear feckin' hear !
Problem with closing Gitmo is two fold...
First, despite what some bleeding hearts have yammered, there are some really nasty sociopaths incarcerated there who will need to be kept somewhere...
Second, which is a much larger issue and arguably a greater threat... we DO NOT want radical Islam spreading in our prison system faster than it already has started to do.
So... what alternatives do you folks suggest? Personally, I'm all for handing the existing prisoners over to Turkey and not taking any more of them alive.
In bold above.
How the hell would you know? None of them have had a trial yet.
Simple... I know several men who have been stationed there to gaurd and deal with the inmates, including a just returned senior chaplain. What, do you honestly think all the inmates are good kids that mean CIA operatives snatched off the streets of European cities? Please... that is idiotic and naive. Most of them are filth captured during raids on terrorist training camps in Afghanistan during the early months of OEF. We are talking hardcore extremists who one does not turn their back on as they have so far used every opportunity to attempt to kill or injure both personnel staffing the facility and visitors from press & Red Cross.
Kyros Stop It! You are frightening me.
Here is a mate for Kyros and a good laugh for the rest of us.
This is the five and a half year old Arkansas Governator, Mike Huckabee (yes folks, the name's real!), speaking slowly from an auto cue, having just come around, after having had a frontal lobotomy operation.
(loved the quip from the first American poster. 'They should stuff a bible down his mouth and flush his head down a toilet')
America, just what would we do for laughs without it?
Khyros, I don't doubt you for a minute, but there are those who would and do. The point about the whole fair trial issue is to ensure that these people are seen to be guilty.
At the kind of level these decisions are made, people should be looking to the strategic consequences and delegating the tactical to those responsible for administering criminal justice.
To put it another way, they should have realised that swinging d1ck posturing over pseudo-legal proceedings is no substitute for effective policing; and if you abandon genuinely admirable standards for short-term expediency, you had all the other bad guys round the world their dream PR victory.
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