Cold war Home Defense Questions

Slime

LE
Well at least we think we do. It’s actually an interesting conundrum and I have written a story about it based on the possibility that the Labour Government after the war came to an agreement with Stalin and made us a Soviet Satelite.

Have you watched the film: It happened here.
It’s based on the concept of the U.K. under a nazi type regime.
 
True, but as those involved were the ones telling us it was so, at least it’s first hand accounts.

Having re read my post, in case of doubt, I was referring to the lists the auxiliary units had, not the little black book the Germans had.
There continues to be a lot of fishing still going on about the auxiliary units, BBC a lot. As Home Guard reformed 1951 - 56, and of course the TA Home Service Force (Home Guard in everything but name) 1980's - 91. Question is were there planed for Aux units in Home Guard 2 and 3(HSF)? if so were there lists 2 and 3?
 

MoleBath

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
persons deemed to threaten security) - Would love to see 'The List'!
1628006867079.png
 

potter

Old-Salt
I’m sure him, Red Ken, and all of Sinn Fein were on it, to name a few…….gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to think that that face could of/would of met the butt (wooden one of course) of THAT RIFLE by some Guardsman when they went to round him up……
That "warm fuzzy feeling". Would that have been from the initial thermal flash(es), or the subsequent fire storm, which would have followed a few days after such a round up?
 

LD17

MIA
That "warm fuzzy feeling". Would that have been from the initial thermal flash(es), or the subsequent fire storm, which would have followed a few days after such a round up?
Referring to nuclear or public ?
I doubt much of a public firestorm after the roundup, on TTW all the Home Defence Organizations would have have been activated along with the Government War Book which would have seen troops manning KPs all around the Country, MRFs ready to respond via helicopter (civilian taken up and military) along with tight control of all media and communications.
If we are going by the 10 day warning period plus the, approximately 10 days of ammo/spares at BAR/RARS, then I think they had enough to round everyone up…..
 
A Bn. To support HM's customs & border security (rounding up suspected Soviet agents & persons deemed to threaten security).

'Now Maitland! Now's yer time!'
 

potter

Old-Salt
Referring to nuclear or public ?
I doubt much of a public firestorm after the roundup, on TTW all the Home Defence Organizations would have have been activated along with the Government War Book which would have seen troops manning KPs all around the Country, MRFs ready to respond via helicopter (civilian taken up and military) along with tight control of all media and communications.
If we are going by the 10 day warning period plus the, approximately 10 days of ammo/spares at BAR/RARS, then I think they had enough to round everyone up…..
Nuclear....
 
Have you watched the film: It happened here.
It’s based on the concept of the U.K. under a nazi type regime.
No deliberately, not, though I do know of the plans. I wanted to see how it would work out in terms of pragmatic politics , bearing in mind the protagonist is British and has to work within the system. It was an interesting test trying to stay neutral. I stalled for a time but put it like this collaboration is a very grey area.
 
Did your story also foretell the Wilson Government (giving hovercraft designs, jet engine IPR, etc to the Russians), "Red Robbo", and the decline of British manufacturing industry ?! :( .
No, I was trying to put myself in the position of Late forties based on the possibility that the war administration had lost Roosevelt, Churchill had been kicked out and there was a swing to socialism which benefited Stalin. As I recall the Soviets got the Jet tech before Wilson but certainly the Attlee Government started the rot.
 

Yokel

LE
No, I was trying to put myself in the position of Late forties based on the possibility that the war administration had lost Roosevelt, Churchill had been kicked out and there was a swing to socialism which benefited Stalin. As I recall the Soviets got the Jet tech before Wilson but certainly the Attlee Government started the rot.

That was down to Sir Stafford Cripps - who had a naivety regarding Stalin. If I remember correctly they were given the Rolls Royce Nene engine, which they copied. The Chinese/North Korean MiGs that flew against piston engined RN aircraft flying from carriers were equipped with them.

Attlee himself did start the British nuclear programme.
 

Slime

LE
No deliberately, not, though I do know of the plans. I wanted to see how it would work out in terms of pragmatic politics , bearing in mind the protagonist is British and has to work within the system. It was an interesting test trying to stay neutral. I stalled for a time but put it like this collaboration is a very grey area.

The film is just a work of fiction :)
It can of course just be watched as such. I wasn’t referrimg to it as a work based on facts or any WW2 planning.
 

Yokel

LE
Did your story also foretell the Wilson Government (giving hovercraft designs, jet engine IPR, etc to the Russians), "Red Robbo", and the decline of British manufacturing industry ?! :( .

The decline of British manufacturing industry was due to many things - such as misspending the Marshall Aid (we got more than anyone else), not realising that we did not have a captive market any more, designing things specifically for the Empire/Commonwealth - such as the VC10 airliner, shoddy old fashioned management who refused to accept the idea that the wartime practices that got us through crises might be worth adopting in peacetime, and a refusal to grip the issue of quality).

Add to the Red Robbo and his comrades....

However, in 1982 Moscow had a shock when thousands of dockyard and shipyard workers did long hours with little notice to get the task force ships ready, modifications were done to STUFT vessels, merchant seamen manned ships at short notice, and other industrial workers did their bit.
 

Slime

LE
The decline of British manufacturing industry was due to many things - such as misspending the Marshall Aid (we got more than anyone else), not realising that we did not have a captive market any more, designing things specifically for the Empire/Commonwealth - such as the VC10 airliner, shoddy old fashioned management who refused to accept the idea that the wartime practices that got us through crises might be worth adopting in peacetime, and a refusal to grip the issue of quality).

Add to the Red Robbo and his comrades....

However, in 1982 Moscow had a shock when thousands of dockyard and shipyard workers did long hours with little notice to get the task force ships ready, modifications were done to STUFT vessels, merchant seamen manned ships at short notice, and other industrial workers did their bit.

I’m sure you are aware of this, but imho it should be added that some of those dockers and shipyard workers went back and did long hours for the very same companies that had made them redundant a few days before.

Proper public spirit at its best :)
 
I recall as a kid on the TV news an item about the dockyard and shipyard fitters. One of the blokes interviewed just said "I phones my wife and told her I'll be home when it's done". Can't say fairer than that.
 
Not the Crabb incident, but 25 years ago I was reading a ghastly militaria rag when I was a spotty recruit in the CCF. There was an article about Spetznaz and a tiny paragraph discussed RN divers finding caterpillar tracks on the seabed inside Portsmouth (or was it Plymouth?) Harbour (possibly in the 1980s, possibly earlier).

Did anything come of that that we know of in open sources?
I think I have heard that about the Baltic, found by Swedish Navy?

I have a book called The Secret War Against Sweden which discusses these tracks on the seabed around Sweden.

In addition, investigation of the sea floor revealed caterpillar tracks from a bottom-crawling vessel believed to originate from an unknown Soviet midget submarine. However, while such submersibles did exist in the West, a Soviet version was not confirmed.
There is some doubt as to whether they were NATO or Soviet in origin.

Classified documents and interviews point to covert Western, rather than Soviet activity. This is backed up by former US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, who stated that Western "testing" operations were carried out regularly in Swedish waters. Royal Navy submarine captains have also admitted to top-secret operations.Ola Tunander's revelations make it clear that the United States and Britain ran a "secret war" in Swedish waters.
Who knows?

The book should probably be titled The Secret War In Swedish Waters (although there is little doubt the Sovs were sniffing around underwater).
 
The film is just a work of fiction :)
It can of course just be watched as such. I wasn’t referrimg to it as a work based on facts or any WW2 planning.
Well of course, but the essential difference is thatRussia wasn’t the enemy and that’s an important mind set. It’s easier if you have a specific enemy
 
Presumably the National Gallery and similar would have had internal plans for movement of their valuble items out of London, but do we know if this was ever covered by state planning? One would expect there to be plans to move the Crown Jewels (especially as they have a politico-constitutional role in creating a new head of state if necessary).

I thought a lot of art work was indeed stashed away as a precaution.

A quick search finds this:


And a couple of photos:

1628087681747.png
 

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