Cold War conversations

Not sure if this has been covered. A search didn’t bring anything up.
There’s a decent podcast series running for those interested called ‘Cold War Conversations’.
I’ve listened to most of them. They’re interviews with the old & bold from both sides (US too), sneaky beaky types, Stasi wallahs & also from eastern bloc residents etc.
Quite interesting.

The Cold War Conversations History Podcast – In conversation with those that experienced the Cold War and those who are fascinated
 

Acid_Reign

Old-Salt
Thanks for this. I've listened to a few and found them very interesting podcasts.

I expect @DaManBugs would find them interesting.

Very interesting about the Stasi collecting thousands of handwriting samples to catch the murderer of the boy found in the suitcase. Interesting also that the West German government accepted the GDR court conviction (but still released the killer early).

This is also interesting:

Smuggled over the border: the school trip, the Stasi and the East German defector – podcast
 

Acid_Reign

Old-Salt
I found this propaganda film from the GDR quite pertinent, given the current UK Brexit discussions.

The USSR and Poland are happily importing useful things like tractors and coal. Happy cheerful music.
But wait - what's this?! Filthy Nazi Porn from The West. Cowboy magazines and US dollars! Music becomes rather frightening...


Watching dated propaganda like this does emphasise the current nonsense that we are being drip fed by our own Establishment today.
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
Thanks for this. I've listened to a few and found them very interesting podcasts.

I expect @DaManBugs would find them interesting.

Very interesting about the Stasi collecting thousands of handwriting samples to catch the murderer of the boy found in the suitcase. Interesting also that the West German government accepted the GDR court conviction (but still released the killer early).

This is also interesting:

Smuggled over the border: the school trip, the Stasi and the East German defector – podcast
In my last overseas post my neighbour was a senior German police officer based in their Embassy, who was in the West Berlin Police in 1989-93 and was very impressed with the forensic skills of the East German Kripo who integrated with them. They were extremely methodical. However they couldn’t be trusted to interview alleged criminals without a West German mentor present otherwise they would resort to ‘not standard methods’.
 

Acid_Reign

Old-Salt
In my last overseas post my neighbour was a senior German police officer based in their Embassy, who was in the West Berlin Police in 1989-93 and was very impressed with the forensic skills of the East German Kripo who integrated with them. They were extremely methodical. However they couldn’t be trusted to interview alleged criminals without a West German mentor present otherwise they would resort to ‘not standard methods’.
That's what I thought when I read about the murder of Lars Bense. However, the West German courts seemed to agree that the previous confession obtained by the GDR authorities was sound.

David Young: Meeting the GDR Detectives - WHSmith Blog
 

DaManBugs

On ROPS
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Book Reviewer
In my last overseas post my neighbour was a senior German police officer based in their Embassy, who was in the West Berlin Police in 1989-93 and was very impressed with the forensic skills of the East German Kripo who integrated with them. They were extremely methodical. However they couldn’t be trusted to interview alleged criminals without a West German mentor present otherwise they would resort to ‘not standard methods’.
Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
 
Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
Whatever you say to keep your conscience clear as a former informer, Bugsy.
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
Feel free to call Germany's top CT advisor in Moscow a liar. I know who I would believe, you compulsive little fibber.
 
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Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
Of course the East German authorities never carried out any human rights abuses.

Zey ver only followink orders!

Where have we heard that before?

There's only one person "shooting the shite" here (as usual).
 
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Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
Bugsy, go to my original link at the top & listen to podcast 64. You’ll hear a first hand account of prisoner abuse by a septic tourist.
Don’t try to say it was a one off. If they’ll do it to a tourist, what were they doing to their own downtrodden citizens?
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
Ah, well you would say that, wouldn't you? In the 40 years if the existence of the GDR, there were only ever three documented cases of prisoner abuse, which was reported to the West German authorities by former prisoners whose freedom had been purchased by the Wessis. Two of the screws were sacked and one was sent down himself.

Of the more than 30,000 investigations against former Stasi and Old Bill personnel, not one single case of "torture" was ever actually proved in court. Not one single case! So either your imaginary neighbour was shooting the shite, or you are.

MsG
Who carried out these investigations?
 
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Deleted 60082

Guest
Who carried out these investigations?
The investigations concerned East Germans who had had their freedom purchased by the West German authorities. Now call me a cynical old fool, but somehow, I have this sneaking suspicion that the East Germans were unlikely to release anyone they got a bit heavy-handed with. After all, this was a regime who shot hundreds of their citizens who had the temerity to leave their social paradise, which ultimately collapsed under its own corruption. Unfortunately Bugsey wasn’t one of the victims. I wonder why, eh Kamerad?
 
The investigations concerned East Germans who had had their freedom purchased by the West German authorities. Now call me a cynical old fool, but somehow, I have this sneaking suspicion that the East Germans were unlikely to release anyone they got a bit heavy-handed with. After all, this was a regime who shot hundreds of their citizens who had the temerity to leave their social paradise, which ultimately collapsed under its own corruption. Unfortunately Bugsey wasn’t one of the victims. I wonder why, eh Kamerad?
Thankfully I don't see what Bugsey posts unless someone quotes him. I assume he has be blocked as I don't know how to.

I have a sneaking suspicion he's one of the soldiers who deserted to East Germany.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk
 
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Deleted 60082

Guest
Thankfully I don't see what Bugsey posts unless someone quotes him. I assume he has be blocked as I don't know how to.

I have a sneaking suspicion he's one of the soldiers who deserted to East Germany.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk
It’s an interesting area, British soldiers defecting both to Russia and to what became east Germany. A month or two ago in the National archives, I found a number of references to personnel who did leave the western zones of occupation and move to the Soviet zone in the immediate postwar period. It was reported in joint intelligence committee papers and also papers raised by MI5. Bugsy, it seems, decided to wander across in the 1970s/early 1980s. But then I don’t believe a single word he ever types.
 
It’s an interesting area, British soldiers defecting both to Russia and to what became east Germany. A month or two ago in the National archives, I found a number of references to personnel who did leave the western zones of occupation and move to the Soviet zone in the immediate postwar period. It was reported in joint intelligence committee papers and also papers raised by MI5. Bugsy, it seems, decided to wander across in the 1970s/early 1980s. But then I don’t believe a single word he ever types.
61 – A US Soldier defects to East Germany – Part 1 – The Cold War Conversations History Podcast
 

DaManBugs

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Who carried out these investigations?
The investigations were carried out by the West German judiciary after reunification. They lasted for 17 years. In contrast to that, Nazi "crimes" were investigated by the West Germans for about five years and then quietly forgotten.
The investigations concerned East Germans who had had their freedom purchased by the West German authorities. Now call me a cynical old fool, but somehow, I have this sneaking suspicion that the East Germans were unlikely to release anyone they got a bit heavy-handed with. After all, this was a regime who shot hundreds of their citizens who had the temerity to leave their social paradise, which ultimately collapsed under its own corruption. Unfortunately Bugsey wasn’t one of the victims. I wonder why, eh Kamerad?
The word "Kamerad" just means friend essentially, If you're looking for the translation of the English "comrade", then it's "Genosse".

MsG
 

dlrg

LE
In contrast to that, Nazi "crimes" were investigated by the West Germans for about five years and then quietly forgotten.
Not quite.

"Both the German Federal Republic (West Germany) and the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) continued to hold trials against Nazi-era defendants in the decades following their establishment as independent states. To date, the Federal Republic (in its old manifestation as West Germany and in its current status as a united Germany) has held a total of 925 proceedings trying defendants of National Socialist era crimes. Many detractors have criticized German proceedings, particularly those held in the 1960s and 1970s, for doling out acquittals or light sentences to aging defendants or defendants who claimed superior orders".
(War Crimes Trials).
 

DaManBugs

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Not quite.

"Both the German Federal Republic (West Germany) and the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) continued to hold trials against Nazi-era defendants in the decades following their establishment as independent states. To date, the Federal Republic (in its old manifestation as West Germany and in its current status as a united Germany) has held a total of 925 proceedings trying defendants of National Socialist era crimes. Many detractors have criticized German proceedings, particularly those held in the 1960s and 1970s, for doling out acquittals or light sentences to aging defendants or defendants who claimed superior orders".
(War Crimes Trials).
It's true that there were further court cases, but they were very different in the two German states. By 1947, fully 90 percent of former Nazi judges and state attorneys were back in business in West Germany. Indeed the first Foreign Minister, Heinrich von Brentano, was a former Nazi state attorney in Braunschweig. Nazi war criminals were treated very cushily by the West Germans (with post-war black marketeers regularly being given longer sentences than Nazi war criminals), but not by the East Germans, who handed down longer sentences and far more death penalties. Moreover, the East Germans always used international law in their cases against Nazis, while the West Germans only did that up to 1951 and thereafter exclusively their domestic laws. And don't forget that of the original 38 generals who formed the "big cheese brigade" of the Bundeswehr, 31 had served in the Wehrmacht and seven were on the Allies' wanted lists for wartime atrocities.

MsG
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
The investigations were carried out by the West German judiciary after reunification. They lasted for 17 years. In contrast to that, Nazi "crimes" were investigated by the West Germans for about five years and then quietly forgotten.

MsG
So in 40 years, the GDR never investigated allegations of ill treatment of prisoners? That is very hard to believe - Even the most benign police force would get the occasional bad apple. I would be very suspicious of any UK police force that never investigated its own. As the GDR is known to have shot people in the back while trying to cross the border, its very suspicious that NONE of its police force ever crossed the line with treatment of prisoners.
As for post re-unification investigation, wouldnt that basically come down to "he said vs he said" unless there is compelling physical evidence.

Re presence of Nazis in the West German infrastructure, am i not right in thinking that to get anywhere in nazi Germany, you had to be a member of the Nazi party? Therefore its not that surprising to find many members of FRG government etc were former Nazi's? Same principle for the USSR and the Communist Party, and the Iraqi Baath party. One of the contributing factors of the Iraqi cockup was that every member of the Baath Party was blocked from Government, instantly hacking off a large part of the Professional population.
 
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Deleted 60082

Guest
The word "Kamerad" just means friend essentially, If you're looking for the translation of the English "comrade", then it's "Genosse".

MsG
Well, you’d know, wouldn’t you? I suppose that you are no longer in receipt of Stasi informer’s pay?
 
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