"Cold-blooded murder" of a "bloodthirsty terrorist"

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by KGB_resident, Jun 14, 2006.

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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5076452.stm

    But...

    Meanwhile

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5074792.stm

    Of course nil.
     
  2. Was i right for them to beat him to death even after he had been subdued by the bus passengers? :?
     
  3. It wasn't right, but understandable. if he had killed three and injured 20. If some of those beating him had friends or relatives injured or killed by him it would only be expected. Can you honestly say that you'd controll yourself in such a situation? I couldn't (unless its my insane save the whale everyone should do as i say vegan Nazi Aunt, in which case he gets a medal)
     
  4. Would I run the risk of being charged with being non-pc if I made that pinnochio's nose gesture ?
     
  5. Do you know something about this that the rest of us don't Sergey? - if you do, then let's hear it, otherwise stop the coy innuendo.
     
  6. Yeah, they weren't cops or soldiers, they were just minding their own business on the bus when they started getting shot at. Regardless of whether or not it's justifiable, it's very understandable.
     
  7. Hi Gallowglass!

    You asked a very intersting question. On any my answer you could replay that "it's well known". So technically I should ask you first. What do you know exactly.

    Taking it in mind I continue. These two cases show a visible shift in Israeli politics. It becomes openly hawkish, based on lies, on double standards and brutal force. Though, nothing new.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3262700,00.html

    Look at our Israeli friends. Nobody is brave enough to defend official version invented by IDF.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150191576640&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    So what is the difference between the "bloodthirsty terrorist" and noble heroic IDF? Mainly in weapons used and while in the first case a mob performed a "cold-blooded" revenge in the second case IDF was safe from "cold-blooded murderers".
     
  8. One difference i can call is that in most case (although i dont know what happened with these arty shells aside a major cock up) the principle and very minor difference is that the IDF are trying to protect their own people by getting rid of terrorists. In the meantime the "peaceful" palestinian terrorists can hardly claim that blowing yourself up on a bus full of civis was collaterall damage (much as i hate and despise the word and attitude) in a strike aimed at soldiers....
     
  9. You are joking ? "protect their own people by getting rid of terrorists" ?? To kill the two terrorists yesterday (if they actually were, I'm not sure I'd believe IDF all or in fact any of the time ) they killed 9 other civilians. Thats by no means the first time that large numbers of civilian casualties have happened.

    This arty fire thing looks like random harassing missions in the vague hope of denying launch sites. That it was NOT a mine that caused the explosion on the beach can be taken from the fact that the BBC among others were wandering about the site afterwards. Mere sniff of a mine threat and they would be reporting from the nearest tarmac.

    Now Israel makes great play of how good their int is, how good Mossad are. If they are that good then why the need for firing anti-tank missiles into urban areas, arty into olive groves ?
     
  10. IDF grunts get a bad rap. They are conscripted men and women put at checkpoints, and are besieged on all sides. Israelli settelers rioted and even shot at IDF troops not long ago when they were told they had to leave. My friend just got back from Israel, and he said that the "Settlement Jews" are largely Jewish extremists and fanatics, and operate on their own rules. Actually, my Church has a relationship with a Palestinian Church in Bethleham, and the Pastor's house is in danger of being bulldozed so that new settlements can be built there.
     
  11. I will not forget the tears in the old mans face, standing clutching his title deeds and papers, as the Israeli bulldozer smashed his olive grove. ( TV News, years ago ). Why on earth the US continues to support Israel I have no idea, it is entirely counter-productive in terms of US wider policy.

    One of my American friends said "Because they are our only friends in that part of the world". Hmmm. I'm no rocket-scientist but I can see a simple way out of that one....
     
  12. Well, what I just said is that the settlers represent a fundamentalist subgroup of the Israeli population (just as jihadists are a minority of the Palestinian population). My friend who just got back from Israel (he's jewish) talked about how depressing the wall is that seperates Gaza and the Westbank from Israel. He said that the Palestinian extremists lived at the closest to the wall, and that the Israelli extremists live closest to the wall on their side. As he put it "two minorities are protesting daily and vowing to kill each other, and that wall is the only thing that seperates them". There are not good guys and bad guys in the Israel-Palestine conflict, simply political/fundamentalist factions and the innocent Palestinians and Israelis caught in the cross fire.
     
  13. Israel deliberately kills civilians, not enough to qualify as a massacre usually but their tactics on occasion are designed to maximise so called colaterla damage.

    Several years ago they dropped a half-ton bomb on an apartment building, killing 14 innocent civilians, just to to get one Hamas man. Then they claimed he was using hisfamily as a human sheild.

    During the Lebanon withdrawal they shelled any car that went down the shoreside motorway, a good family friend of ours was killed in that attack.

    In Qana they bombed a refugee camp killing a hundred civilians, they claimed they had no knowledge of a civilian presence but UN video footage actually showed an Israeli UAV hovering around overhead prior to the attack.

    Even the investigation they're now pursuing over the beach incident is only to try to assuage international opinion and not out of any genuine sympathy for that poor young girl whos now an orphan.

    When challenged all they do is fall back on the oh-but-we're-a-democracy argument.
     
  14. I know that. However, I also saw an album from an IDF guy who went on the other side of the wall, and who was giving out candy and soccerballs to Palestinian kids that live near the checkpoint they operated. I really wish I'd asked him to let me copy some and save them on my hard drive. I never heard from him or seen any photos like them since (largely because that is a very rare event). It just bothers me to know that in the political storm, things like that get buried and forgotten. IDF troops have been in situations where they tried to save Palestinian civilians, but red-tape set up by Israelli beauracrats often block them from getting the wounded to hospitals. I read a book a few years ago called Martyr's Crossing, that shifted between narrators (one an IDF soldier, one a Palestinian Doctor, a Sheik, an Israelli Spook, and the mother of a Palestinian boy that died of an Aesthma attack while trying to cross the border), I think it did an exelent job of showing the tragic cycle from multiple perspectives.