CMT/PARAMEDIC DEBATE

#1
Now some have accused me of being a grumpy old fart (and I agree with the old and fart bit). But in recent years our CMT's, the boys at the sharp end, on the ground, have excelled themselves, and continue to prove their worth every day.

I have a little issue to the "Paramedic". For one thing why? When the guys on the ground are doing exactly what we need, why do we need a paramedic to be trained in civvie street, doing loads of patient transfers for elderly folks, picking up louts who are sh1tf@ced on a weekend, and basically attending incidents that have little or no relevance to todays battlefields?

Instead of justifying "paramedic status" for the chosen few, whose numbers I imagine won't fill the required slots on one OET never mind two conflicts at once, we should be looking to get paramedic status for all current and competent CMT 1's.
 
#2
Cor don't start this one again!!!

Protectionism, titles, professional bodies, shoite management etc

Gives me a feckin headache.

Prehospital care is not hugely complicated, Paramedics may dissapear up their own arrses with this ecp thing. All health care professional appear to have huge chips on shoulders no matter where they are on the food chain, HCA----Nurses (spits)----GP---Neurosurgeons and all between, below and above

Does this only occur in the medical field?
 
#5
This debate has been rattling on for years and will continue to do so for the next 10 centuries.......nobody gives a sh*t about CMT's (except CMT's) in the RAMC.
 
#6
Having been a CMt for 22 years and now working for the ambulance service. I think that the intention of this thread how ever well intentioned has missed the point slightly. Its not the paramedics that block CMT recognition its the MOD and HCP.although highly trained there are gaps in CMT training that would need to be addressed before they could gain full recognition also the fact that the higher up the ranks you go the further away from your trade you get as has been highlighted in several threads on here refernce clinical time.
 
#9
For one thing why? When the guys on the ground are doing exactly what we need, why do we need a paramedic to be trained in civvie street, doing loads of patient transfers for elderly folks, picking up louts who are sh1tf@ced on a weekend, and basically attending incidents that have little or no relevance to todays battlefields?
Interesting point Muckster, but what about when the Medic is not on the Battlefield? (like the other 90% of his career). When they are at the MRS looking after families, or even in a field unit when the QM is brought in beacause he's piled in with his dodgy ticker on CO's PT?

What about when he leaves the Mob altogether? Should he be expected to start from scratch as a forty year old man in the pre-hospital care industry?
I seem to remember plenty of complaining that we never had any civvy quals and that no-one in civvy street took us seriously. Now, thankfully, because of all of the good work our guys and gals are doing abroad, you will find Military speakers at pre-hospital conferences, a Military section on the BASICS and BPA websites, and even a whole Mil day at this years' Trauma Care conference.

The whole pre-hospital care sub-specialty is in a constant state of change, and for the first time ever, the Military Medic is considered to be a very real part of that change. In order for that to continue, we must be able to produce Medics who are not only capable, but also qualified by professional bodies' standards as well as our own. Gone are the days where we could just do our own thing and say b0llocks to civvy street, if we want to be consulted or included in future changes in pre-hospital care, then we have to be remain credible, both as individuals and as a body of professionals. Penetrating and ballistic injury comprise a very, very small part of pre-hospital care, and although on the increase, the demand for it outside the battlefield is relatively small (unless you live in Bogota or Johannesburg).

You are definitely correct that Paramedic registration should not be a pre-requisite to deployment, and no-one is saying that it should, ideed, there are more than a few civvy paramedics out on the circuit who are having a very hard time of it because they lack the ability to hold casualties, improvise, or work under duress.
I definitely think though, that giving the CMT a paramedic career path to follow, if that's what they choose, is a good thing. If handled correctly, it should provide some diversity and academic progress to the CMT trade. But, to agree with part of your argument Muckster, it is only one part of the jigsaw and should not be viewed as the one and only thing that everyone should aim for.

On a personal note, I found that being a HPC registered Paramedic made made it a lot easier for me to keep my skills up. All I had to do was ring the local Ambulance service or a private company and get some shift work. Try doing that without any accreditation! I would hate to see things go back to the way they were, I remember not doing a single day's medicine in my first 5 years in the RAMC! I could tell you the ins and outs of my 432 though!

regards

I
 
#11
My question would be why bother ?

Come out of the army having a valuable trade and experiece like CMT - join the ambulance service get paid peanuts, get puked on and abused on a Friday night and spend 80% of your time either doing or whinging about doing PTS runs.

Use the CMT qual - do the offshore medic course, get a job in industry the job may not be fantastic ap but at least it pays reasonably well.....

Dons tin lid and body armour......
 
#13
The_RTG_Medic said:
My question would be why bother ?

Come out of the army having a valuable trade and experiece like CMT - join the ambulance service get paid peanuts, get puked on and abused on a Friday night and spend 80% of your time either doing or whinging about doing PTS runs.

Use the CMT qual - do the offshore medic course, get a job in industry the job may not be fantastic ap but at least it pays reasonably well.....

Dons tin lid and body armour......
My answer,

Who wants to leave a job that takes you away from your home to sandy dusty conditions?

Even the rigs mean your away from home alot. You can argue with me that 4 on 4 off is good and i'd agree, but you wont win that one with my wife!!

Most of us want to leave and have the stability of a local job.
 
#14
Or do what I do after 20 years as a Paramedic in London, move onto the solo response units where you don't do any PTS/transfers etc and just get sent to calls that need a medical response.
 
#15
Double_Duck said:
Or do what I do after 20 years as a Paramedic in London, move onto the solo response units where you don't do any PTS/transfers etc and just get sent to calls that need a medical response.
You mean that you actually go to patients that are ill, and are not used as a clockstopper for this government's latest fukced up target?

Whatever next.
 
#16
Lol, hard to believe I know..

I don't know about other services but in London we have such a large number of calls, normally over 4000 a day, by the law of averages we actually get at least one or two working jobs every shift..
 
#18
Karabiner said:
We have lots of reasons for trying to get CMTs trained to civilian paramedic standard ranging from clinical governance to operational need. I for one have worked for a long time to try to improve the lot of the CMT and have come up against a range of barriers, some of them from within the cadre.

I have looked on here and listened for years to CMTs complain that they have limited transferable qualifications to use when they leave the mob, we are trying to address that against a changing background both in the Services and in paramedic training. FFS the goal posts are not just on wheels they are bleedin motorised and scooting about at mach 5!! We do not need every CMT to be paramedic qualified, we couldn't support the clinical continuation training needs for a kick off and the Amb Trusts do not have that sort of capacity. Lots of work being done and we are working hard for the cadre, the recent success on pay banding is an example. Our trial of the continuing training for CMTs is also progressing albeit slowly. I know it sounds like jam tomorrow but I challenge any individual on here to get faster progress, volunteer to come to work for me and you will see what we are up against.

I for one feel grateful that you are fighting the cause of the CMT and as a retired CMT think it is refreshing that you do so and thank you, I also wish that in my time we had this opportunity (ARRSE) to have reasoned debate across the rank structure.

We all go on about the value of the CMT to put it in nut shell if the casualty arrives at the Hospital dead then you can have as many Health Care Professionals with fancy machines as you can stuff in the tent the casualty is still dead, so our CMTs must be valued for what they do, save lives in very difficult circumstances which allows the Specalists to do their stuff.

On the question of quallifications how many ODPs, Nurses or Doctors would be pleased to find out the qualifications they had gained counted for nothing when they left the service, there would be uproar and they would leave in their droves, what the guys are asking for is after their time in the Army they have a transferable qualification which would help them transferre to civi life. At the moment you can join the Ambulance service on the bottom rung or pay to go on the Offshore Course and be away from your family again.

I opted to leave the medical world completely and other than the military ethos I have very little to offer an employer, so I found it difficult to find my niche in civi life, I have and do very well for myself but having a recognised qualification after 24 years would have helped.
 
#19
the point and problem that is being missed again and again and again by CMTs is that CMT training does not provide the competencies required for registration ...

the services educate their 'own' ODPs and Nurses in a higher education and in the full range of placement environments because the law requires it, the services don't educate their Doctors pre-reg and and specialist wise becasue of the requirements for initial registration and and higher specialist training

what do these arrangements bring? exposure to the full range of clinical environments ...

in terms of the exposure to the full range of placements and for education look at what is happening in civvie strasse with Paramedic education - moving to HE basis - often uses one trust only becasue of the geographical spread of the regionalised ambulance trusts ...

the ambulance service doesn't necessarily need to support the forces with respect to maintaining competence ... the forces could support the ambulance service in garrison towns and in remote areas where the major (relative) population is the forces community ... we see this model with the VASes and with the full range of first responder schemes including the schemes run predominatly by military personnel under the banner of the First response charity....
 

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