Cluster bombs! Sign up here for the ban

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by BaldricksBullet, Aug 31, 2007.

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  1. Rant!

    So now Diana's in the news again... it's time for the Diana wanabees to bang on about cluster bombs again! I've had to speak to a few people in my time about this... and I always stump them by asking them to define a cluster bomb and why it is more dangerous than other weapons... "Because they don't go off and are dangerous to the public after we've nicked their country"... true... but not necesarily... fuze design is much better now, and modern submunitions (yes that was the word you were probably after - any particular type?) come with self destruct mechanisms.

    See... A "cluster bomb" is no more dangerous than say a rapid fire ammunition with a crap fuze. The danger has nothing to do with the Viet-sexy-lingo "Cluster bomb".... So please stop trying to confuse the public by using it - Walts! Understand what the root of the danger... create a ban that will address it fully... and then educate the public. Every politician that jumps on the bandwagon and says the word cluster bomb... leaves me thinking... dozy git.

    So please sign up here for a ban on ammunition with crap fuses that don't always work or have self destruct mech, or render the ammunition safe.

    Rant over!
  2. So if I say "Cluster bomb", I'm a walt?

    A trifle harsh, perhaps...
  3. oldbaldy

    oldbaldy LE Moderator Good Egg (charities)
    1. Battlefield Tours

    Misread the title thought George Armstrong had come back to haunt the injuns with a new bomb.
  4. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    No as all you are doing is opening the door for some clueless bureaucrat to take the ban to a level that we don't want
  5. Fair point, cluster bombs have their use and it would be a tad short sighted to bow to more pinko-leftie tree-hugging hippie shirtlifting beef vegetarian commies jumping on the "Diana was hoofing, ban mines, cluster bombs, rifles, sticks" band wagon.
  6. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Cluster bombs, mines, MLRS, dumb bombs, napalm, dum-dums, laser guided bombs, frag grenades, phos grenades, Hesh rounds, Heat rounds, BLU bombs, bunker busters, fuel-air bombs, knives, nasty pointy rilfe thingies, bayonets . . . they're all facking dangerous you know. They're designed to be dangerous, or more accurately, lethal.

    What's the point of going to battle with knuckle dusters and b!tch slaps as weapons?
  7. That all depends if you know what a cluster bomb is? a bomb? a misslie :) ? a rocket? a propelled grenade? a shell?

    However... for using the word "trifle"... march yourself off to the guardroom!!!!
  8. Every time you try to limit what we, as "civilized peoples", can use as a weapon, tactic or strategy in an armed conflict all you do is tie the hands of said "civilized peoples". The "uncivilized" or people who simply want to win don't give a rats arrse about your silly little rules. In the end the "civilized peoples" will "rule" themselves out of the game.

    There is a perfectly good reason for making cluster bombs whose parts all work as advertised or that can be destroyed remotely if they don't. It has nothing to do with protecting the poor indigenous population. I, frankly, don't give a sh1t about them - they were the enemy, remember. It has everything to do with protecting your own soldiers lives when they march, victoriously, over the enemy's previously cluster bombed land!!!! :D :D :D
  9. Dis-a-bloody-gree. (although I get your point)... See- this would allow all sorts of kiddie friendly area munitions (post conflict) of any nature to be used... cluster fcuks included... providing they did not cause a hazzard after the said country was nicked.
  10. Hmmmm food for thought... how do we really make ourselves ineffective... I know

    Sign up here for a ban on all wepons that hurt.
  11. No thanks, I like Cluster Bombs - I saw a demo on the Plain once and it made my willy go all tingly! :p
  12. Hmm... I picked up some of the duds and my arrse felt the same.
  13. It does doesn't it... Even better if an A-10 flight comes in right after... Woooodyyyy... :D
  14. I misread the title too. I thought it said "Clusterfucks" and thought we were pulling out of Iraq.
  15. This topic certainly caught my eye!

    I work for an international organisation which is a founding member of both the International Campaign to Ban Landmines (ICBL) and also the Cluster Munition Coalition (CMC). I am a technical advisor for our clearance operations and have also spoken in parliaments around Europe in support of the need for a treaty that effectively bans 'cluster bombs'. I guess that makes me a 'walt' despite my 25 years of military service, bomb disposal qualifications and 7 years in the humanitarian sector.

    First, the use of the term 'cluster bomb' is to promote awareness amongst the civilian population; cluster munition or sub munition would not have the same impact. But that is not strictly poor teminology; the container that sub munitions are delivered in is called in military terms CBU ... or Cluster Bomb Unit. Besides which all legal documents being drafted for the proposed treaty does not refer to cluster bombs but refers to cluster munitions (and their associated sub munitions).

    Secondly, the use of cluster munitions is far different to that of other weapon systems (even those with 'crap fuzes'). This is because they are delivered in an indiscriminate manner over wide areas and in large concentrations. The main problem with sub munitions is that they suffer large failure rates, have sensitive fuzes and are often unusual items that attract the interest of the unwary. Other munitions (those with crap fuzes) can be just as dangerous but are rarely found in any great concentration and rarely will they function just by movement.

    My third point is that fuze design is not much better that when SD2 'Butterfly Bombs' were dropped on Grimbsy and Cleethorpes. The failure rates in SE Asia were so severe that later generations of US sub munitions (such as the BLU 97) were fitted with 'always acting' fuzes ... which still failed up to 40% of the time in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. The M85 bought from Israel by the MOD was found to have less than a 2% failure rate in trials because of it's self destruct mechanism. In operational usage in Lebanon last year it is estimated that the failure rate of the M85 is closer to 15% ... no different than older sub munitions but with a secondary fuze to make it more sensitive.

    Cluster munitions cause serious humanitarian problems where ever they are used in the world. Fact. They are also inneffective at suppressing an enemy; ask the Viet Cong or Hezbollah or the Taliban! I have seen the effects of cluster munitions use on communities in Kosoovo, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Laos and firmly believe it is time to get rid of this outdated weapon system. Not only for the sake of affected communities but also for the sake of our own troops who deserve better, effective and efficient systems to suppress the enemy.

    Dozy Git