CLM Duty Rumour

Reverted in rank due to non completion of CLM. Is this a good thing or bad?


  • Total voters
    40
#1
A duty rumour floating around the ether is that R SIGNALS Wing is in the process of investigating over 100 soldiers ranging from A/LCpl to A/Sgt that have not completed the mandated CLM training within 12 months.

It appears that some more soldiers may find themselves being reverted back to their substantive lower rank before Christmas if they cant justify their inability to attend and pass CLM.

Earlier this year R SIGNALS Wing did this to a A/Sgt, they had to move out of the mess and were subsequently posted as a Cpl to another unit.

What do you think? Is this a good thing or bad?
 
#2
It's a requirement for promotion. Therefore if you don't get it done, you shouldn't (barring extenuating circumstances such as operational commitments) get the rank. Simples.
 
#3
Good or bad aren't the right options - seems reasonable enough to me, as pointed out above.

Personally i'd like to go back to having to do the course before promotion... means you wouldn't get ********* 'acting up' in the first place, doing the course first was a wonderful filter...
 
#4
Depends on the people who are responsible for ensuring the soldier follows up with the parts they've not completed. If the soldier has pushed for this to happen but it hasn't, should they be demoted? Not their fault their seniors haven't pulled their fingers out.. If however they've not or have avoided doing the bits they've missed then yes, demote them and promote someone who has completed everything.
 
#5
Cow, MCM normally loads the courses. So the only way they can get to 12 months without doing one is by they themselves or their unit pulling them off. After 6 months their priority rises, so they can pick and choose which course they want (another will be bumped off to make room).

There are probably a few who haven't been able to get on for genuine reasons. Others may just be scared of the physical, mental and spinal demands required....
 
#6
That's changed since I did my CLM in 2005 then! The SQN 2IC was the one who was meant to recomend that you be loaded onto the course, not having one meant that no one was (or at least that was the reason given by the OC to the RCMO..)
 
#7
Good or bad aren't the right options - seems reasonable enough to me, as pointed out above.

Personally i'd like to go back to having to do the course before promotion... means you wouldn't get ********* 'acting up' in the first place, doing the course first was a wonderful filter...
Nail, Head, well and truly tw*ted

Getting YOURSELF (as a potential leader of men) qualified for promotion before being promoted shows desire. If selected for promotion, however, not qualified (due to exceptional service reasons) you have 12 months to qualify and DO NOT take post or wear rank until you pass the relevant course.

No need for reversion of rank then as freeloading blaggers don’t get promoted in the first place

Simple really :biggrin::biggrin:
 
#8
This is supposed to be happening in the RLC although you can get a six month extention to the normal 12 months if you have a valid reason (Tour or injury). Its amazing the amount of biffs who suddenly realise that after years of hiding behind a sick chit, that perhaps their injury isnt so bad after all and that maybe they can man up for the one week exercise.
 
#9
Don't think it is a rumour. We had people come back from theatre early as they had to pass to gain Sub rank. As has been said, if you haven't got a valid excuse, why should you get paid and wear the rank?
 
#10
12 months is ample time for 99.9% of people. There may be one or two that can't manage the course in this time, and for that there is a system. Anyone getting to 12 months, and still not completed need to be asking themselves some stern questions.

Re doing the course prior, problem with that is the courses get gummed up with people who don't come off, so the people who stand a chance can't get on. The way it stands is sufficient.

The other big question is what to do with those who fail the course... twice.
 
#11
12 months is ample time for 99.9% of people. There may be one or two that can't manage the course in this time, and for that there is a system. Anyone getting to 12 months, and still not completed need to be asking themselves some stern questions.
To be fair if you get promoted just before going on tour, after POTL has ended you face a very small window in which everybody else is trying to fit into.
 
#12
Stacker, as c_f has said, there is a system in place for people who cannot attend because of a tour etc.

c_f, if they have 2 attempts and don't pass, revert, simple as. As CAARPS has said, don't give them the rank untill they have successfully completed the course, then you won't have that problem.
 
#13
Stacker, as c_f has said, there is a system in place for people who cannot attend because of a tour etc.

c_f, if they have 2 attempts and don't pass, revert, simple as. As CAARPS has said, don't give them the rank untill they have successfully completed the course, then you won't have that problem.
No excuse for them not doing Part 2 on a tour. I, believe it or not, went out of my way to help people to that bit when I was in the Falklands. Part One is up to them. Part Three is up to MCM.
 
#14
Oh, and the Education Centres on tour are probably better than the ones in UK at the moment.
 
#15
Maybe if 4 sqn didnt bolt all the extra crap onto the 'required' pan Army CLM qualification, they could run more courses, thus getting more soldiers qualified.Remember we are R Sigs not Depot Para/SAS/SBS/SRR/RM/Inf.
 
#16
Stacker, as c_f has said, there is a system in place for people who cannot attend because of a tour etc.
Just pointing out that it might be a bit more than 0.01% of people depending on when the promotion is awarded and when the tours are.
No excuse for them not doing Part 2 on a tour. I, believe it or not, went out of my way to help people to that bit when I was in the Falklands. Part One is up to them. Part Three is up to MCM.
Yes there is an excuse, You cant do part two until you have done part one as the education centre in Bastion told me when I tried.
 
#17
Maybe if 4 sqn didnt bolt all the extra crap onto the 'required' pan Army CLM qualification, they could run more courses, thus getting more soldiers qualified.Remember we are R Sigs not Depot Para/SAS/SBS/SRR/RM/Inf.
4 Sqn don't bolt any extra crap on to the Army CLM qual, that other corps do not already.

RSTOs are there because there is a perceived requirement for J/SNCOs in units. Whilst my memory of my own SCLM is at last beginning to fade (memories of my Detties have thankfully rose tinted over), I don't recall there being anything on the course that I could, hand on heart, say was pointless. I may never have practiced it, but others may have.

Pretty much everyone who comes back with a pass in their mits seems to think the same way.

There would be more than enough slots per year if fcukers turned up, and didn't wimp out thus leaving spots on the courses unfilled.

I beleive the Inf (at least) run a bare bones CLM. But there SNCO's are already qualled in their various disciplines and the 'extra crap' by virtue of their various vocational courses (Senior Brecon, Support, Signals etc).

Our equivalent (Class 1) does not cover such things.

So do you prefer to do the RSTOs for the J/SCLM on your Class 2 and/or 1 or on the JCLM and SCLM?
 
#18
Stacker, I was promoted just as I started PDT..... I then went on to complete my tour, and STILL managed to get my CLM start date inside of the 12 month point (admittedly I split my POTL in order to do so). It was the older CLM, and I completed the ETS bit in theatre.

So.... Anybody still under the impression that a tour really stunts your chances at completing your CLM?

Perhaps the promotees pay could be frozen at what ever they were on, with the balance being paid on completion of the CLM.... no money lost, no money given. Bit of an incentive no doubt.

Or, the CO could give the new stripes in a handy presentation envelope that opens out in to a 365 day chuff chart. With all the dates of the CLMs already on. Day 365 is black with 'reduction to previous rank' written in it.

The promotee could fill this calender in with things that they did instead of the CLM. Should those things be seen as worthy enough, then extra time could be given. If not....
 
#19
c_f, the only other Corps that 'add on (as well as us)' are the RA. If we don't add on, is that why they are thinking about taking out the exercise phase? How can they take that out if it is a mandated part of CLM?...........
 
#20
Stacker, I was promoted just as I started PDT..... I then went on to complete my tour, and STILL managed to get my CLM start date inside of the 12 month point (admittedly I split my POTL in order to do so). It was the older CLM, and I completed the ETS bit in theatre.

So.... Anybody still under the impression that a tour really stunts your chances at completing your CLM?QUOTE]

Erm, yes. Just because you managed to do it, doesn't mean that most blokes about to deploy on tour will manage it. But as has been mentioned, this will be taken into account by Glasgow.

And at the end of the day, if you get reverted to your substansive rank, so what? An extra year as a full screw before picking up again, I'm sure you can make that time up waiting until your 16 year point for promotion to WO2.
 
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