CLM and the Corps

CLM has come up as a topic in other strings I thought it may be useful to see if there is any interest out there on what is really happening and to help to dispel the usual rumours and inevitable misinformation. The Army have not been too clever in getting the right information out to the people who are to affected by this. Plenty of info is circulating at the exec level but evn that is full of holes that you could drive a coach and horses through. I am in a position to shed soem light on some of the issues.....any takers? :wink:
Yes mate, i would be interested to know. There is alot of rumour out there, like the full screw with over 5 years service getting waivered on JCC/EFP, and a similar rumour for Sgts (i know certain individuals who are rubbing their hands together after hearing these sort of rumours). Any info on what the CLM means to the EFP course at SSgt? Is the course going to be similar or have they changed the lot?


What is CLM?
<has been a civvy a while now>
Command Leadership and Management, damn fine course, done the pilot, much better than the EPC/EFP, more relevant to everyone and it actually makes sense. v enjoyable course, non of your bone presentations on time wasting toss.
How many years did it take for the army to realise that doing buisness studies between the army and civ div was of no use to anyone?
CLM is a good Idea but could have been introduced and implemented better. The transition period is obviously going to cause some resentment amongst those who have managed to achieve the required standards in the past, especially for those who may now perceive that this is not going to be formally acknowledged.

Hopefully, those who have proved their credentials through previous courses and who feel that they may have wasted their time, will not allow themselves to become too bitter, and continue to display their potential and be justifiably rewarded.

Perfection is the enemy of the good....
A resentment always arises when people percive that they have had to work harder for the same rewards. This will always happen, its the old "when i was on my detties/sgts course" thing, someone always had it harder than you. Its always been the way.

I do hope that the system recognises the individuals who worked hard to get on the relevant courses and pass them, in order to help promote themselves. I also hope that those who have been waiting in the shadows for the courses to change or become less physical or intensive will be obvious by their keeness to attend, and be put to the back of the queue where they belong.

Try this, its off the armys site - who else could use the words 'serving soldier' & 'career' in the same sentence without being drunk/falling about laughing.

I was due to do my detties in January 2004, have now been told (boss phoned Manning and Record for me) that as of 1 Jan 2004 all substansive Cpls have been waivered.
Don't agree with it myself, but can't help smiling at the fact I may never have to spend more than 5 days at Blandford again.
Point is even those loaded onto the courses that have been cancelled, who were willing to do the detties/Sgts whatever it was called - will be looked down on by everybody who has done it, even those who struggled to get a grade E.
Sorry Wobblyhead you may have got a waiver this time but assuming you are going to stay around they will get you with a CLM course when you are selected for promotion to Sgt and again WO2 !
Ah well, never mind, best get my best tabbing boots out the cupboard again. :D
Take heart wobblyhead there is more to a career than a 3 or 4 week course report. Important as they are people were never selected for promotion based on their performance on these courses alone. Your whole profile gets you promoted. The good will still rise to the top, the grey men will remain grey and we will always need people who even though they may not be good enough to go to the next rank will be looked after an manged if they continue to do a good professional job :wink:
IS Ski Geek said:
Does anyone have the info of what CLM involves and what you have to do at each rank as the unit seems to have no details at the moment.
ive some paper work that the education centre gave me, either pm me with your address and ill send it or ring your local AEC and ask for a copy.
CLM for SNCO and WO will now be attended on selection for promotion to Sgt and WO2. (Or identified as highly likely to promote in next year)

It is a developmental course so no pass/fail as such. Suspend your cynicism here - how many people actually failed EFP?

The main difference this makes is that there will be no hold up to careers waiting to get onto EFP.

I do not know how you tweeters are doing it, but most A&S are almagamating the JNCO elements into existing JNCO cadre courses.

JNCO level is cap-badge run. You also have to do a 3 day development phase at an AEC t to draw up a plan for development during you time as a Bdr to prepare you for SNCO CLM.

To attend this you must have Basic Skills Level 1 in Literacy or equivalent (GCSE English grade G!).

At SNCO/WO you are assesed as Competent/Not Yet Competent in the various areas. If NYC in any area, CO is responsible for implementing Devt plan and you cannot be further promoted until you are comp in all areas (cannot procedd to SSgt/WO1)

At this level the course is split between 3 week courses at AECs and a 3-5 day course run by the cap-badge. (Again some services are amalgamating this into other existing courses)

Your RCMO should have all of this and should be telling you!

Hope this helps

boyblue wrote:
At SNCO/WO you are assesed as Competent/Not Yet Competent in the various areas. If NYC in any area, CO is responsible for implementing Devt plan and you cannot be further promoted until you are comp in all areas (cannot procedd to SSgt/WO1)
Just to clarify one thing bb, having done and passed my Sgt's Course, am i still qualified for promotion for SSgt? Or have i got to qualify again?


Boney_M wrote
Just to clarify one thing bb, having done and passed my Sgt's Course, am i still qualified for promotion for SSgt? Or have i got to qualify again?
Yes you are still qualled for promotion to SSgt if you have completed your Sgts Cs, its just that you will have millions of others on the board aswell!!!! I think they (MCM Div) could have perhapes thought this one out a little better. Although they were probably told what to do! :( There should be an other DCI out in December to further complicate the matter :roll:
Oh, thats alright then. Glad their keeping up with the Corps tradition of changing the goal posts every year, so that you have no hope of keeping up :evil:

Kind of makes me wish i'd sat on my arrse and not bothered qualifying, although its not in my nature. I expect the'll be promoting the first tranches of CLM students to up the stats and make it appear that the new system is the best thing since sliced bread. With all the changes to the rules the corps has gone through, is it any wonder that Royal Signals soldiers are the synical bunch they are?
I think, sorry I know that there is much work being done on the CLM courses to ensure that they are fair and a just representation of the training objectives. There will always be a transition period between the old and the new. What you have to take on board is that you’re a better more trained soldier than your counterparts. Therefore it hasn’t all been in vain, has it!
I know it hasnt been in vain - i was just venting a bit!! I do think the Corps could do with a bit of stability for a while. What with the last 6 years of retrades, changes to the RSJCC/Sgts Course etc, a few years of stability and normality would do the world of good.
Sorry for the delay.

Promotion to SSgt is outside the scope of CLM.

You needed EFP1 for Sgt, and EFP2 for WO.

Now you don't need either. You go on the course once you are selected for promotion.

The RSigs Sgts cse is a seperate thing but I imagine will now include the SNCO CLM element.

If you do not have EFP1 and get to Sgt next year, you cannot be promoted further until you have completed both parts of SNCO CLM. You will not even get substantive Sgt until both parts are completed and you have been assessed as competent.
All Look at the next edition of the wire. The wee fella from Stranraer has had his staff prepare a simple brief on CLM, what it is, what it does, what you need to get there and what you take away after attendance. Your Corps are looking after you :D
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