Climate Change - Manmade or Not?

[TopBadger]

Did anyone see last nights program on Channel 4? The Great Global Warming Swindle?

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

What did you think? Is climate change touted as a new evil so people can make a living out of defeating something that doesn't really exist?

While i'm all for getting away from polluting energy sources this program made me very wary of the green lobby, and others who stand to benefit from "averting distaster" as they would put it.

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

 

[milsum]

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

One program completely changed your conviction? A little fickle aren't we?

 

[Lady_H]

The prog did raise some interesting points- like a lot of people would find themselves unemployed if man-made global warming was found to be a farce.

My boss has been banging on about global warming being a scam (he showed me graphs!!!), for ages- I thought he was just being eccentric...

was he on to something maybe?!

 

[TopBadger]

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

One program completely changed your conviction? A little fickle aren't we?

I haven't changed my mind, i still think we're causing climate change, though perhaps not quite the extent we're told.

Maybe a little info about myself is required. I'm a Physicist, so i understand the science (mostly) and have read reports on this. As a result i'd bought into man made climate change as its peer reviewed before it's published. What i wasn't aware of was that there are a lot of very respected sources, not paid for by BP/Shell/Etc, that have had their science perverted by political subeditors (e.g. EU climate change body) who changed or completely omitted significant portions of their results.

What happened to objective review? Why can't i be given the raw facts and left to make up my mind?

I am now forced to not believe either side of the argument until i can have some faith in what's published, not omitting important sections that "don't fit the message they WANT to put out" would be a good start!

TB

[edited for spelling and grammer]

 

[green_slime]

I have no doubt that we have an affect on the environment, it is the extent that it completly unproven as yet.

There is a massive lobby on-going at the moment, some might say that they truly believe the threat, or others might just think that getting the public to be scared about something, and therefore need a solution, is a good way to get a few votes.

Come back in 2000 years and let me know who was right.

 

[Ord_Sgt]

Did anyone see last nights program on Channel 4? The Great Global Warming Swindle?

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

What did you think? Is climate change touted as a new evil so people can make a living out of defeating something that doesn't really exist?

While i'm all for getting away from polluting energy sources this program made me very wary of the green lobby, and others who stand to benefit from "averting distaster" as they would put it.

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

If that pipped your interest to question the green industry try reading Michael Crichtons State of Fear. An eye opener as to who is set to profit from all the doom saying. Remember Y2K - nothing - nadda - the great year 2000 swindle. Its all about the money.... hmmm wasn't that a song once?

 

[Biped]

A HUGE number of farting cows and other wildebeast is one of the major problems we have here. It is not solved by going Vegan either because that makes humans fart . . .

When you add the various multi-million degree heat let-offs every time they tested a nuke either underground or above the surface, that heat didn't just fly off into space (IMHO) . . .

Add a couple of world wars and numerous other smaller conflicts involving lots of hot things going off . . .

Bung in a few hundred million cars, trucks, vans and motorbikes all chucking out fumes and heat (engines get hot through the combustion process dontcha know), whilst at the same time chucking out C02 (major cause of greenhouse heating) . . .

6 billion oxygen breathers chucking out C02 . . .

Thousands of aircraft lobbing heat out the back of their jet engines all day and night . . .

The industrial revolution, still going on in developing nations wo are chucking out vast amounts of heat and C02 . . .

Naaaahhh; this is all just a load of hot air. Anyway, higher C02 levels and temperatures do not necessarily signal the end of the age of man (and wildebeast for that matter) as the fossil records show that during the time of the dinosaurs the C02 levels and temperature levels were much higher than they are today (and the humidity levels). Look at how big the dinosaurs got FFS! Imagine a 20ft high darts player weighing 40 tons!!!

The biggest difficulty we have from global warming (which might very well be indicative of a natural cycle anyway) is the rising sea levels combined with rising population levels - I don't want to share my house with some hot, sweating, gasping 20ft tall, 40 ton darts player thanks very much.

Edited to add: God my spelling is atrocious!!

 

[Blind_Pew]

Got to see most of the program last night.
Like you I am re-evaluating my thoughts on the green issues and man’s impact on the planet.
You could almost come to the conclusion that we are being suckered into paying even more tax to prop up the green lobby!
But what can we do to turn the government from this parasitic path?

 

[gentlesoul]

I really don't know what to think. On the one hand eminent scientists say man has caused global warming and on the other, more eminent scientists say it's a cycle and not unexpected. How does one tell who is right or wrong?

Taking science out of it and looking at very basic facts, this certainly isn't the warmest winter we've had since records began but pumping noxious gases into the atmosphere can't be a good thing.

Perhaps that wonderful word compromise needs to be brought into the equation, less of the 'panic' and more funding into helping countries like Poland for example in Europe find other solutions to coal as well as each of us making effort ourselves.

 

[Steven]

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

One program completely changed your conviction? A little fickle aren't we?

Or has TopB just had his "road to Damascus" moment?

Nothing fickle about recognising the truthtm when it barbeques your donkey.

 

[Ord_Sgt]

I don't think there is much argument that the climate is beginning to get warmer. Take this last winter for example, incredibly mild. However the problem I have is that we are told - as in it is already taken as read - that we are causing it. And while I think reducing polution is a sensible course of action there is no definitive evidence to support the idea that its our actions and not purely a cyclical thing. Problem is of course the green lobby twist everything to show their point of view and thereby undermine their credibility when found out and prevent most people making an informed intelligent decision based on facts. Of course the press have a vested interest in sensationalising the whole thing to sell copy and anyway we all know they don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Still I have no kids and will be dead in thirty years or so, so who gives a fcuk

In fact I'm just off to book a long weekend to the US to increase my carbon footprint and piss of the sandle wearing luvvies by taking an unnecessary flight.

 

[milsum]

TB, have pm'd you.

 

[TopBadger]

In any case, this program made me re-evaluate everything i thought i knew about climate change.

TB

One program completely changed your conviction? A little fickle aren't we?

Or has TopB just had his "road to Damascus" moment?

Nothing fickle about recognising the truthtm when it barbeques your donkey.

You know, i think i have...

 

[TopBadger]

I used to literally lose sleep over this being nature-lover (not a naturIST) but you know what - warmer climate, better crops in the UK, more wearing shorts etc and as long as you live on high ground - no worries. In fact let's just turn the UK into a sun-loving paradise as the Auusies have done.

(besides its too late to turn it back now.)

Yeah, sounds good, but our overwhelmed immigration services might complain when the population of the world tries to move here.

TB

 

[Litotes]

I believe that we are doing immense damage to the planet but that damage doesn't manifest itself as "global warming", which is far more dependent on things like solar radiation and volcanos, IMHO.

What we are doing is destroying the food chains on which life depends - in the oceans, the jungles, rivers. And we are doing that by the use of chemicals, pesticides and unsustainable large scale farming.

The "global warming" campaign which has used our taxes to build windfarms in beautiful and remote moorlands and hillsides has done immense damage to the beauty of this country (and others) whilst making vast profits for some manufacturers - all because the Government doesn't understand what it was doing. Unbelievable. It would have been far cheaper and far more sustainable to subsidise low energy light bulbs and loft insulation in all houses in order to cut our consumption of energy. Look at how wasteful businesses are - because it is all tax-deductible. The next time you visit one of these edge of town shopping sites, such as Currys, PC World, JD Sport etc, look up at the ceiling. You will see a thin metal plate separating you from the weather; no insulation at all. They keep everything warm by moving large quantities of hot air around with the huge fans and trunking that you can also see. Daft.

And the current crap about paying for waste disposal and "green" recycling really annoys me. I have always recycled and always will, but there is a large chunk of the population that doesn't care what happens to their rubbish, but would care if they had to pay to dispose of it. These people would rather drive out into the countryside and dump their rubbish than pay. It's wrong, they should be shot, but it happens, and we end up with a litter covered countryside because the Government doesn't think straight.

And I wish Mr Prescott would stop allowing developers and property owners to make huge profits by destroying large gardens (that are usually small scale nature reserves with a large number of diverse species) in order to build at densities that are stupid. I consider it much better to build on farmland where the farmer has already wiped out all but one species (wheat, barley or potatoes) with 50 years of chemical warfare.

This lunchtime rant was brought to you by billions of severely inconvenienced electrons powered by several nuclear, coal and gas fired power stations. One wind-farm powered electron was due to be inconvenienced but was delayed during the long journey over the Pennines and will join us later.

And another thing....

/and breathe......

Litotes

 

[halo_jones]

Yes there is some chicken little money too be made, but it would certainly be better for our grandchildren too live more greener and it wouldnt hurt if some things where made better ie no pollution in the air.

I have become very intollerant of diesel fumes, if that is because of too much time skiveing behind the POL point or just the increase in motors remains too be seen.

I spent some time working with the met office and the beardy boffin there and the Cray super computer certainly modeled that human are effecting the climate.

While it is also a matter of opposing views that anything we do now 'is too little too late' 'the last chance saloon' we realy do have too try "fresh air and clean water are the sustanace of us all" ...... !

 

[stoatman]

The winter of 1916 was warmer, by the way...

Here's an interesting correlation Al Gore will not tell you about, sunspot activity (a proxy for solar output) and temperature:

Who would have thought it? The sun is hotter now than it has been since as far back as we have proxy data. Notice how there is a correlation with the ups and downs -- the carbon dioxide data correlates far worse with temperature than this.

Now, if I were an evil genius, I would hitch my wagon to an environmentalist cause that most people do not understand (anthropogenic global warming as a result of carbon emissions), make a propaganda film incorporating "proof" consisting of selective quoting of data, and a very scary looking graph which was proved wrong more than five years ago, and hawk it around the world. I'd certainly win an Oscar for it! I'd then set up a company selling carbon offsets, and tell everybody that they needed to buy them to save the planet. I'd then watch the money roll in!

Oh, wait -- Al Gore has already done that!

 

[Oracle]

I believe that we are doing immense damage to the planet but that damage doesn't manifest itself as "global warming", which is far more dependent on things like solar radiation and volcanos, IMHO.

What we are doing is destroying the food chains on which life depends - in the oceans, the jungles, rivers. And we are doing that by the use of chemicals, pesticides and unsustainable large scale farming.

The "global warming" campaign which has used our taxes to build windfarms in beautiful and remote moorlands and hillsides has done immense damage to the beauty of this country (and others) whilst making vast profits for some manufacturers - all because the Government doesn't understand what it was doing. Unbelievable. It would have been far cheaper and far more sustainable to subsidise low energy light bulbs and loft insulation in all houses in order to cut our consumption of energy. Look at how wasteful businesses are - because it is all tax-deductible. The next time you visit one of these edge of town shopping sites, such as Currys, PC World, JD Sport etc, look up at the ceiling. You will see a thin metal plate separating you from the weather; no insulation at all. They keep everything warm by moving large quantities of hot air around with the huge fans and trunking that you can also see. Daft.

And the current crap about paying for waste disposal and "green" recycling really annoys me. I have always recycled and always will, but there is a large chunk of the population that doesn't care what happens to their rubbish, but would care if they had to pay to dispose of it. These people would rather drive out into the countryside and dump their rubbish than pay. It's wrong, they should be shot, but it happens, and we end up with a litter covered countryside because the Government doesn't think straight.

And I wish Mr Prescott would stop allowing developers and property owners to make huge profits by destroying large gardens (that are usually small scale nature reserves with a large number of diverse species) in order to build at densities that are stupid. I consider it much better to build on farmland where the farmer has already wiped out all but one species (wheat, barley or potatoes) with 50 years of chemical warfare.

This lunchtime rant was brought to you by billions of severely inconvenienced electrons powered by several nuclear, coal and gas fired power stations. One wind-farm powered electron was due to be inconvenienced but was delayed during the long journey over the Pennines and will join us later.

And another thing....

/and breathe......

Litotes

A good post which sums up my sentiments. You can guarantee when big business or the government get involved in anything, the motive becomes generation of income and profit. The global warming scenario has just fallen foul of just that.

 

[OldSnowy]

The World warms up. Results?

Norfolk is inundated.

Iraq south of Kurdistan is inundated.

Scotland warms up too much to grow oats (therefore no porridge) and the midges all die off.


To me, these sound like three extremely positive outcomes. What's the downside?

 

[wrxmatt]

Its about time this came out into the public domain.
About time some commoon sense was used.
Here is a government petition if you feel cheated like i do:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/StopClimateTax/

Please sign and feel free to pass on to people

Matt