Clegg's plans for the House of Lords

#1
The House of Lords Reform Bill has been published. Highlights:

1) The elected members will be selected by a system of Proportional Representation. The Bill makes explicit reference to a party list, so it is basically going to be a place to stick party hacks, with the fig leaf of democracy to make it look legitimate.

2) All of the ex-officio members at present (the functionaries of state - the Earl Marshall etc) will be removed.

3) There will be five Bishops with automatic entitlement to membership, and a further seven Bishop members. Amusingly the Church of England will elect its own members for this purpose (and of course the PM will still appoint the bishops).

4) There will be 'ordinary appointed members' decided by a commission, which is a continuation of the present system for selecting cross benchers.

5) However, crucially, the Prime Minister will still be able to appoint up to 8 'ministerial members'. This means a PM can appoint anybody they want in order that they may take up a ministerial role.

6) The Parliament Acts will still apply (i.e. the Commons will retain primacy).

My conclusion is Clegg is full of shit, that this is another fudge just like Blair's 2001 reforms and the result will be a further degredation of the quality of legislation and governance.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
At least it's a step to an elected upper chamber rather than the Zimbabwe-esque mockery of democracy that exists now. Any move towards a fully-elected chamber is a move in the right direction.
 
#4
At least it's a step to an elected upper chamber rather than the Zimbabwe-esque mockery of democracy that exists now. Any move towards a fully-elected chamber is a move in the right direction.
The only difference this will make is party leaders don't have to feel guilty about stuffing the place with their mates because they can claim their mates were all elected. Functionally nothing will change.
 
#5
I think the lords should be scrapped full stop. Full of rubbery ranting old farts 'saying not in my bloody day', when half the piss ridden old farts fall asleep to get a wedge of my dough as a taxpayer. Scrap it and the lot of them. is like some of the Old on Bold on my corp weekend saying that didnt happen in my day - well jog on mate times have changed and flex with it.....
 
#6
A benevolent dictatorship is one of the most efficient forms of government that may one day exist.

The supremacy of the House of Commons, the elected chamber is presently not in debate, nor can it be.

QED get over life not being equal!
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
you know we do have enough generals/admirals and hangers on to fill said parliamentary upper chamber with a suitable junta.

add a few lefty bishops for balance and it just might work
 
#8
Lets be honest what do the house of Lords actually do??? Very little really, to me its an old boys network for some retired MP's who talk drivel and make money of the back of it.
 
#9
Lets be honest what do the house of Lords actually do??? Very little really, to me its an old boys network for some retired MP's who talk drivel and make money of the back of it.
Big challenge. Although they are politically appointed, even the arch-cynic that I am, I cannot deny that a lot of Lords bring a good deal of experience to matters debated in the Lords.
 
#10
But how many times do they actually bring value to the taxpayer??? Only when they see something when a policy they disagree with enforced by the House of Commons.

Its a waste and why should becuase daddy is lord they get it as well. Load of arse.
 
#11
Actually the Lords is a review chamber. The job is basically to improve legislation and or give the Commons pause to re-think. The danger is that the moment they get elected members they will think that they are more important and set the system up for deadlock and competition as happens in the US and Australia. It's usually a good idea to learn from others' mistakes, not to copy them.
 
#12
What we need is the return of the court of the star chamber, a court purely to try the high flying political brigands who are destroying our country and yet are seemingly imune to prosecution.

If they need an executioner, I volunteer, I'll do it fer nowt!
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#13
For those whinging about what the Lords actually do, I suggest going there one day. They do a hell of a lot of review work, sorting out crappy legislation that Governments have whipped through the Commons.

And this 'reform' - it will only mean hacks like Lord Oakeshott being paid full-time for 15 years, as opposed to being paid now only when they turn up and sign in (bit like the TA...). Read up on that man - he failed to be elected twice as an MP, but the Libs made him a Lord as he was handy with the cash for them. He's just the sort of ****** thart would end up on a list of Party nominations.

I prefer to leave it aas it is - I've met a few Lords, and frankly they are far far better value than MPs.
 
#14
At least it's a step to an elected upper chamber rather than the Zimbabwe-esque mockery of democracy that exists now. Any move towards a fully-elected chamber is a move in the right direction.
Wrong, your faith in our current system where the party's decide who is on the list of prospective MP's is quite touching.
The only way an elected upper house would get my support is if the prospective members are selected by an open primary system where the constituencies decide who stand and even then it would probably be manipulated.
Far better would be a standing panel of top diplomats, businessmen, scientists, representatives of charities, citizens etc etc, from which members are selected by jury system.
After all, the lords is supposed to examine legislation and hold the executive to account and if you stuff it full of party hacks it is just a rubber stamp, and will be worse at its job than when it was stuffed full of drunken aristocracy.
 
#15
It is a good Lib Dem ploy.

They have managed to introduce PR through the back door, so they will have far more Peers than they could ever have hoped for. Add to that the introduction of a Party List system for the Lords which will ensure that the many utterly useless liberals that will lose their seats as MPs at the next election will seamlessly move to the Upper House.

At least at the moment some of the Peers are free from political affiliation. The new system will enshrine the power of the major parties in an elected upper house. It will hand legitimate power to the very worst type of politician - the type who cannot get themselves elected by the people.

The current system might seem a bit of an anachronism, but its faults are balanced by the fact that the House of Commons is the only elected authority and has true legitimacy.
 
#16
Clegg's 'plan' is as stupid as the most stupid plan proposed by the stupid Professor of Stupid at Cambridge University who was sacked for being too stupid.

Blair started the rot; the destruction of our government infrastructure, and, if adopted this stupidity, backed by Cameron the Coward, will complete the destruction.

How do these lame-brains (current MPs) believe that they know more, and know better, in the seventeen years since the spiv Blair was elected, than those who ran the nation for seven hundred years?

Whatever is the outcome of this waste of time and energy, it will benefit politicians and it will cost tax-payers.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Clegg's 'plan' is as stupid as the most stupid plan proposed by the stupid Professor of Stupid at Cambridge University who was sacked for being too stupid.

Blair started the rot; the destruction of our government infrastructure, and, if adopted this stupidity, backed by Cameron the Coward, will complete the destruction.

How do these lame-brains (current MPs) believe that they know more, and know better, in the seventeen years since the spiv Blair was elected, than those who ran the nation for seven hundred years?

Whatever is the outcome of this waste of time and energy, it will benefit politicians and it will cost tax-payers.

You are Abu Hamza and I claim my five pounds. Or the reincarnational of Burke. Becuase something was done for a period of time it should always be done? And the men who ran this country for 700 years were lots of diffferent men, who were venal and corrupt and wanted power for themselves, not what was in the best interests of the country or it's people. Men who created nice little sinecures for themselves so they could legitimately draw massive wealth from the government purse. Men who took on civil service jobs on the basis that they could make themselves rich through bribes and fees.

You sem to think that there was some kind of golden age when politicians were honourable and noble. It never existed and never will.
 
#19
'reformed' House of Lords?

Retirement home for failed and ousted MP's.
And this is why this reform is unlikely to happen. Lest we forget Cams still has his big Gerrymandering plan to unleash on UK Plc, and he needs somewhere to put a lot of disgruntled MP's [his own that is] who will loose their seats in the shake up. As the Lib Dems will be annihilated, Cleggy hasn't cottoned onto this wheeze yet, and is still proceeding full steam ahead in the vain-glorious hope that the Tories will offer him a seat in the commons at the next election.
 
#20
Clegg's 'plan' is as stupid as the most stupid plan proposed by the stupid Professor of Stupid at Cambridge University who was sacked for being too stupid.

Blair started the rot; the destruction of our government infrastructure, and, if adopted this stupidity, backed by Cameron the Coward, will complete the destruction.

How do these lame-brains (current MPs) believe that they know more, and know better, in the seventeen years since the spiv Blair was elected, than those who ran the nation for seven hundred years?

Whatever is the outcome of this waste of time and energy, it will benefit politicians and it will cost tax-payers.
Isquared luv the rant, but when did politicos especially Nazi politicos, ever do anything, for anybody that didn't line their own pockets in someway first.
 

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