Clay pigeon shooting in the army

#1
I've done a bit of skeet at home for a few years now (family & friends' guns not my own) and I've been thinking about getting a cert and buying a gun myself, and I assume it's a sport the army does so I was wondering if I was to buy a gun, is there any way I could keep it on camp? No point asking to put it in the armoury as I'd never be able to access it, and I assume the colour man wouldn't be too happy about installing a gun cabinet in my room in the block, so I'm at a bit of a loss.
Anyone got any experience with this?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#2
Loads of folk have, experience that is. I suggest that the unit sports officer is approached (if you still have one) and discuss the setting up of a team. The Army will often provide guns and ammo for organised training and events. Funnily enough its mainly pads involved in my experience but if the grown up leading the team/administering the team is a singly then it becomes easier. The unit armoury can store non issue firearms for sport, they did years ago when the QM went bonkers about how many lads had shotguns in their army issue clothing lockers in the block. Pre 1988 act. Getting a unit or sub unit armourer to open up can be a pain, they need to be booked, often if there is a singly with keys leaving weapons in his care answers the problem out of hours or the unit jail can store until Monday mornings by prior arrangement. A lot will depend on where you are, how supportive your unit is and if the officers shoot.
There is always a way around the problems, the biggest one will be police agreeing to storage. If you have a license with your home address on it install a cheap cabinet there and tell police its for when you are at home, usually you will be keeping it at your unit armoury.
A pain on posting overseas though!
 
#3
Loads of folk have, experience that is. I suggest that the unit sports officer is approached (if you still have one) and discuss the setting up of a team. The Army will often provide guns and ammo for organised training and events. Funnily enough its mainly pads involved in my experience but if the grown up leading the team/administering the team is a singly then it becomes easier. The unit armoury can store non issue firearms for sport, they did years ago when the QM went bonkers about how many lads had shotguns in their army issue clothing lockers in the block. Pre 1988 act. Getting a unit or sub unit armourer to open up can be a pain, they need to be booked, often if there is a singly with keys leaving weapons in his care answers the problem out of hours or the unit jail can store until Monday mornings by prior arrangement. A lot will depend on where you are, how supportive your unit is and if the officers shoot.
There is always a way around the problems, the biggest one will be police agreeing to storage. If you have a license with your home address on it install a cheap cabinet there and tell police its for when you are at home, usually you will be keeping it at your unit armoury.
A pain on posting overseas though!
Cheers for that, just a couple of things
1. My bn definitely has a couple of biathlon rifles in the armoury, not sure if they're owned or belong to the bn though
2. Thought it might be
3. Not sure we've got a unit jail
4. Which police force would I be best applying with? The one near camp or the one at home? For official purposes I still live at home but in real life I'm in the block the vast majority of the time. If I register at home and the local policeman who checks these things turns up asking to look at my guns and neither they nor I am there and haven't been for a while and nobody knows when we'll be back next I can't see him being too impressed
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
Answers in Italics
1. My bn definitely has a couple of biathlon rifles in the armoury, not sure if they're owned or belong to the bn though
This is why you need to ask the unit, there may be a unit sports officer, ask the gym queens if its not obvious. The PRI used to be helpful as it was the domain of the RQMS in my day and he knew everything!
2. Thought it might be
Yup, though often there is a duty cave dweller on weekends who provided he isn't too un sober may be ok unless he is a pad and they are always unhappy!
3. Not sure we've got a unit jail
Your unit will have somewhere it stores naughty people, even if by arrangement. If not then an admin room can be secure for overnight use if it has limited access. Often guns will need to be out for a Suday mornings comp unless its army organised sport in which case it is likely to be a weekday!
4. Which police force would I be best applying with? The one near camp or the one at home? For official purposes I still live at home but in real life I'm in the block the vast majority of the time. If I register at home and the local policeman who checks these things turns up asking to look at my guns and neither they nor I am there and haven't been for a while and nobody knows when we'll be back next I can't see him being too impressed
Ok, this isn't as tricky as it seems, provided the Police know you have a permanent address then storing elsewhere isn't a problem. Access by others is. There are second home owners who have a single license. Its provided for in law. The Police cant just visit uninvited without a warrant. If they call you then they will want you to be there so it needs arranging. Then you can tell them its in the unit armoury and here is your chit (on the atlantic conveyor) or whatever. Not being in possession isn't an offense. Not knowing where it is causes problems. They can phone the camp but usually are happy with that explanation.
I have met FEO's who can be awkward. I have met many more who are the complete opposite, usually the awkward ones are either ignorant of the law or been there so long they think they are the law. You find these gits everywhere in life, RP staff, MTO, Drill pigs etc!
Good luck and let us know how you get on. If the unit has a fund for shotguns at some point you will start buying them anyway and membership of unit team is a great good reason to further your case. If I had stayed in on posting back to the UK I would have got my license but not left anything at home that my useless brother could have sold. I would have taken my guns to a local shoot clays or birds wherever I would have tipped up in the end!
 
#5
First step, make an appointment with your QM, play very nice, explain the problem and present a variety of solutions, ask for his advice, leave a bottle of decent scotch on his desk on your way out.

Job Jobbed.
 
#6
At my location singlies can keep guns in the armoury but also have to be on a unit register of personal weapons. The unit also has also clay club on camp (skeet and sporting) with 3 club guns for use by soldiers under section 11(6) exemption. Whilst the guns are owned by the unit they have to be on an individual's shotgun certificate. The danger is that when the OIC Clays is posted there will be no one to take on the duties and run the club.
 
#7
IIRC there is a 'para in some Regs that prohibit the storage of privately held Shotguns/Firearms in MQ's'

I had a long, long, "discussion" with some over zealous RMP's regarding the primacy/precedence of Civil Law vs Military Law in regard to this matter.

It did not end well.......
 
#8
Don't forget you will also need to store ammunition.
JSP 482 Chapter 13 has:
3.8.4 Privately owned commercial explosives other than Fireworks (see para 3.13), belonging to Service personnel, MOD employed civilians or Multi Activity Contractors may be stored for safe custody purposes in a licensed PES, subject to the written permission of the HoE, in accordance with the appropriate regulations, under the following conditions:
(1) They have been classified by ESTC (see Chapter 4).
(2) The owner is to have, if required, a civilian firearms certificate that authorises him to possess the explosives. If doubt exists on the need for a certificate, advice should be obtained from the local civilian Police.
(3) The owner is to have, if required, certification in accordance with the Control of Explosives Regulations (COER) 1991 (as amended by MSER 2005).
(4) On receipt, the items are to be inspected by a competent person. Items that are in poor condition or have been subject to local modification are not to be accepted for storage. This receipt inspection is to include checking for compliance with PEC and CLER, and packaging must be in accordance with the UN ‘Orange Book’ requirements.
(5) Approval has been given by the Technical Explosives Authority.

How much of a problem this will be depends on the attitude of your CO and QM
 
#9
Not a true singly but married unaccompanied during the week so similar to your position OP.

Step 1. I applied to my local police force for a SG Cert. They came out (by appointment) to inspect my SG cabinet at my home address.
Step 2. SG Cert arrives and I buy a SG.
Step 3. I write an email to my CO asking for permission to keep my SG in the Unit Armoury. In the letter I also mention that I am willing to mentor Unit members on a Wednesday afternoon at the local clay ground. Also mention that I would like to form a Unit Clay Target Team if there is sufficient interest.
Step 4. CO thinks this a good idea, forwards email to QM saying please make this happen.
Step 5. Duty Storeman allows me to access my SG with a couple of days notice. It helps if you give priority to taking Storeman to smash a few clays on a Wednesday afternoon.
Step 6. You may wish to look at booking onto one of the SG courses run at Bisley with the purpose of producing safe good shots who can promote SG sport throughout the Army.
Step 7. Enjoy being able to handle a weapon safely and responsibly without having to show empty pouches, listen into details etc...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
Don't forget you will also need to store ammunition.
JSP 482 Chapter 13 has:
3.8.4 Privately owned commercial explosives other than Fireworks (see para 3.13), belonging to Service personnel, MOD employed civilians or Multi Activity Contractors may be stored for safe custody purposes in a licensed PES, subject to the written permission of the HoE, in accordance with the appropriate regulations, under the following conditions:
(1) They have been classified by ESTC (see Chapter 4).
(2) The owner is to have, if required, a civilian firearms certificate that authorises him to possess the explosives. If doubt exists on the need for a certificate, advice should be obtained from the local civilian Police.
(3) The owner is to have, if required, certification in accordance with the Control of Explosives Regulations (COER) 1991 (as amended by MSER 2005).
(4) On receipt, the items are to be inspected by a competent person. Items that are in poor condition or have been subject to local modification are not to be accepted for storage. This receipt inspection is to include checking for compliance with PEC and CLER, and packaging must be in accordance with the UN ‘Orange Book’ requirements.
(5) Approval has been given by the Technical Explosives Authority.

How much of a problem this will be depends on the attitude of your CO and QM
However you can just store shotgun cartridges out of the reach of children in the real world
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
Forgot to add that the RQ photocopied my SG Cert and produced some sort of register that I signed to cover Loggie inspections.
I hope it was endorsed "copy" otherwise both of you broke the law
 
#13
Is it really any wonder that those of us with more than a passing interest in all things related to shooty bangy bits of metal/wood/plastic are pretty much well securely embedded on the upper reaches of the Autistic Disorder Spectrum - or is it just that blokes are wired differently ?
 
#14
Not a true singly but married unaccompanied during the week so similar to your position OP.

Step 1. I applied to my local police force for a SG Cert. They came out (by appointment) to inspect my SG cabinet at my home address.
...
Step 7. Enjoy being able to handle a weapon safely and responsibly without having to show empty pouches, listen into details etc...
What sort of outbreak of common sense is going on here? Wouldn't have happened in my day... What is the army coming to... Bah...
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top