Classic car as a daily runner?

[Ecosse]

I nearly bought one of those in 1988. Luckily I realised in time that it would have bankrupted me.

The Vauxhall Royale UK built sisters were truly awful. Cheap cost cutting Russian steel from memory.
Opels were of proper German stuff apparently.
The tops of the Royale front wings could perforate in a year.
You could, the joke was at the time, listen to them dissolving in the driveway.
I doubt there is one left you'd want unless it was a Carcoon Special with 10 gallons of Dinitrol in it.

 

[SauceDoctor]

How ******* much?!? I don't care how fast or rare it is, there is no joy in a Chevette. You could get the mother of all Talbot Sunbeam Lotuses for that and have 20 grand change and a better car.

 

[theinventor]

Sp

And no one has been mad enough to beat him since 1979.

Not many other sporting records that have stood that long.

Apparently unlimited water speed record setting is statistically the most lethal sport on the planet.

85% of people who have attempted to be the fastest man on water have died in the process.

Sounds like something Guy Martin would be nuts enough to try.

 

[Ecosse]

How ******* much?!? I don't care how fast or rare it is, there is no joy in a Chevette. You could get the mother of all Talbot Sunbeam Lotuses for that and have 20 grand change and a better car.

View attachment 669832

Well, it uses the shell basically and kinda stops there really. Seems mint and boxed but not £45k of my wonga if I was as minted as the car.
Yes, I'd have a top drawer Sunbeam as well...same thing using a shell but miles better.
Had a pax run in one in the late 70's ...bloody hell it felt quick.
But then, I'd just dropped off my 1300cc Avenger for it's service.

 

[Gardner6LXB]

Isle of Man TT is an up and coming belt fed killer.
But, equally that is an event and they too accept the risks.
Tragic none the less for the families.

A father & son died in a sidecar combo on Friday.
Double tragedy. The lad was only 21 & in his first TT.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Well, it uses the shell basically and kinda stops there really. Seems mint and boxed but not £45k of my wonga if I was as minted as the car.
Yes, I'd have a top drawer Sunbeam as well...same thing using a shell but miles better.
Had a pax run in one in the late 70's ...bloody hell it felt quick.
But then, I'd just dropped off my 1300cc Avenger for it's service.

Channel your inner Plenty Hairy Koala and learn to left foot brake.

 

[Truxx]

A father & son died in a sidecar combo on Friday.
Double tragedy. The lad was only 21 & in his first TT.

Is it 5 deaths so far?

Not great

Not great at all

 

[Gardner6LXB]

Is it 5 deaths so far?

Not great

Not great at all

5, yes.

TT management dropped a bolloxk last week by announcing the death of the wrong bloke.
They said it was the passenger, condolences etc. Then realised it was the rider. Oops.

 

[Cutaway]

How many more lives must be needlessly lost until these two and three wheeled motor vehs are banned ?

 

[jagman2]

5, yes.

TT management dropped a bolloxk last week by announcing the death of the wrong bloke.
They said it was the passenger, condolences etc. Then realised it was the rider. Oops.

Categorically not the fault of the race organisers or the coroner

The driver and passenger were wearing each others tags. Nobody yet knows why and they are hoping the survivor will be able to tell them why

The dead man was decapitated and the other is currently unrecognisable for various reasons

Common knowledge on the island and I had it from an extremely reliable source in Douglas this morning
The Coroner will not allow it to be released to the press right now but it is cast iron

 

[jagman2]

Is it 5 deaths so far?

Not great

Not great at all

It happens unfortunately

The riders know the risks and chose to take part
The sidecar deaths now appear to be caused by a road surface issue
The first one was investigated and a mechanical failure found on the outfit, the 2nd accident occurred literally inches from the first and the belief now is that it is an issue with the road surface and the mechanical failure may have happened in the accident rather than being the primary cause

I'm currently on the ferry back from the TT
The info source is pukka and I won't name names publicly but as its you drop me a PM if you want to know more

 

[Truxx]

It happens unfortunately

The riders know the risks and chose to take part
The sidecar deaths now appear to be caused by a road surface issue
The first one was investigated and a mechanical failure found on the outfit, the 2nd accident occurred literally inches from the first and the belief now is that it is an issue with the road surface and the mechanical failure may have happened in the accident rather than being the primary cause

I'm currently on the ferry back from the TT
The info source is pukka and I won't name names publicly but as its you drop me a PM if you want to know more

But you and I know that isn't how it works in our modern world.

Something will have to be done.

See group b rallying and even F1 for details

 

[Cloth bomber]

But you and I know that isn't how it works in our modern world.

Something will have to be done.

See group b rallying and even F1 for details

The island has a long history of really not liking being told what to do.
On top of this they will tell you that the ( insanely) high risks the riders take is in full view , ie they enter with their eyes wide open to the risks.
And the entry lists are oversubscribed year on year so they are all willing competitors.
it is one of the last great visceral spectacles, stood in the verge on Sulby straight as Steve Hislop came past my nose at 198.mph is lodged in my senses still.

 

[Joshua Slocum]

The problem is, the Isle of Man TT was originally a time trial, a road event designed to showcase and improve motorcycle reliability
the roads are narrow, have uneven surfaces, are in the main a public road, and surrounded by street furniture, rocks, walls, buildings etc, even with hay bales and other forms of protection, you run out of road far too quickly
The motorcycles are far too powerful for these roads, but also vast amounts of revenue are generated by the racing and the thousands of visitors
Its the modern equivalent of throwing Christians to the lions

Perhaps a reduction in engine size and power output needs to be considered, or like many classic tracks, entire sections taken out of use, the course shortened and made safer

The Italians stopped using the Circuito del Lario for the same reasons
I have ridden that course and I can see why

 

[Ecosse]

How many more lives must be needlessly lost until these two and three wheeled motor vehs are banned ?

Look back at the old F1 days though.
Jackie Stewart and a few others banded together to stem the flow of death back then, but F1 was never going to be banned, then look at stuff like stunt flying...bloody mental.

I'm afraid part of the challenge of vehicular sports is The Dice with Death. The competitors embrace the built in risks, and still strive to be the best but not at all costs...just hope Lady Luck is on their side on that day.
Latter day Gladiators..." We who are about to....etc."
I'm afraid, human nature as it is, deep down paying crowds anticipate these risks as part of their entertainment.


Of course, there is a monumental gulf between ramming an F1 into the Armco surrounded by a safety cell, and unseating at 180mph into a tree or wall.
I have a friend and neighbour who owns 3 Superbikes, I think 2 of which he has restored from damage/scrap.
My lock up is next to his, and we were fettling away our respective vehicles 2 days ago.
To broadly quote him:
"It's our chosen passion that can kills us...just like mountaineering and & diving"
I guess we could debate it all day.

 

[Cloth bomber]

Mick Grant used to stop with friends of ours on the island.
He described it as a lethal memory test.
A shit hot short circuit rider has to on any race day remember the racing line into perhaps 8 or 10 corners max.
The track is built with wide run off areas and gravel traps to catch a rider if he overcooks it and comes off, no big deal usually.
The TT however is 37.5 miles of a couple of hundred corners which if you are to be anywhere near race pace you have to be bang on the mark on every one.
Then there are multiple interconnected corners like Glen Helen where if you are slightly off on the first you will be further off on the second and into the cliff face or wall by the third.
There are virtually no run offs so a mistake , just one , in over 115 miles of race speed , can and frequently is fatal.so different mentality to short circuit stuff.
The most impressive feat of memory mr Grant ever saw was Agostini. ( when the TT was “ just” a round of the world championship. and he hadn’t been there for a year)
Did a first practice lap of the year, and was within 8 seconds of the lap record. Ie he had done a lap at racing speeds cold from memory a year before.
braver than me but epic stuff

 

[Truxx]

Mick Grant used to stop with friends of ours on the island.
He described it as a lethal memory test.
A shit hot short circuit rider has to on any race day remember the racing line into perhaps 8 or 10 corners max.
The track is built with wide run off areas and gravel traps to catch a rider if he overcooks it and comes off, no big deal usually.
The TT however is 37.5 miles of a couple of hundred corners which if you are to be anywhere near race pace you have to be bang on the mark on every one.
Then there are multiple interconnected corners like Glen Helen where if you are slightly off on the first you will be further off on the second and into the cliff face or wall by the third.
There are virtually no run offs so a mistake , just one , in over 115 miles of race speed , can and frequently is fatal.so different mentality to short circuit stuff.
The most impressive feat of memory mr Grant ever saw was Agostini. ( when the TT was “ just” a round of the world championship. and he hadn’t been there for a year)
Did a first practice lap of the year, and was within 8 seconds of the lap record. Ie he had done a lap at racing speeds cold from memory a year before.
braver than me but epic stuff

I cannot remember who it was said about (Joey Dunlop?) but the summary of his riding prowess was that if he ran over a fly on lap one he would run over the same fly every lap thereafter

 

[jagman2]

But you and I know that isn't how it works in our modern world.

Something will have to be done.

See group b rallying and even F1 for details

The sidecars are obviously under serious scrutiny right now with three killed and a fourth in a seriously bad way
Race and government officials take it extremely seriously and thoroughly investigated the first indecent before the 2nd race, their verdict on the cause of the first accident was incorrect but that wasn't discovered until it happened again
The 2nd one was inexactly the same place, literally within inches

There were a couple of spectators injured by flying debris in the 2nd

But yes you are correct, something will have to be done but I very much doubt it will quite the knee jerk over reaction we would see on the mainland

As far as I can't tell the attitude at the top of the island food chain is focused primarily on making it safer and allowing it to continue
The BBC seems to viewed very negatively for its coverage but concern for the televisions negative and inaccurate coverage comes a long way behind improving safety and keeping racing going

However, I suspect that you are absolutely correct that we will see the end of sidecar racing at the TT in its current form, it will have to change simply because the death rate is just to high

 

[jagman2]

The island has a long history of really not liking being told what to do.
On top of this they will tell you that the ( insanely) high risks the riders take is in full view , ie they enter with their eyes wide open to the risks.
And the entry lists are oversubscribed year on year so they are all willing competitors.
it is one of the last great visceral spectacles, stood in the verge on Sulby straight as Steve Hislop came past my nose at 198.mph is lodged in my senses still.

The 2nd sidecar race had a serious impact on rider confidence this week

I know of one sidecar passenger who got on a plane home after practice and the team didn't race

At the Senior on Saturday at least three riders retired due to the wind up on the mountain and deciding not to take the risk
I think it was actually five but only sure about three
I know at least one more intended to retire but continued after seeing lots of his competitors in the pit lane

 

[Gardner6LXB]

Remarkably rust free.