Class 1 ptarmigan op course

#1
Already asked this question on Armynet but no one goes there

Does anyone know if there are any TA Ptarmigan Class one Op courses next year

( braces self for torrent of smart arse answers about asking psi etc etc )
 
#2
polar69 said:
Does anyone know if there are any TA Ptarmigan Class one Op courses next year

( braces self for torrent of smart arse answers about asking psi etc etc )
Rather than brace yourself, you could just say why you didn't ask your PSI.

msr
 
#3
msr said:
Rather than brace yourself, you could just say why you didn't ask your PSI.

msr
Next years programme normally comes out around now, as a guide use lasts years dates.

p69,

From memory Blandford will programme 1 AS Op(P)(V) and 1 AS Op(P)(RR), this years relay course was around Feb/Mar.

As I've mentioned before the course has a fair chance of being cancelled, it ran this year with about 2-3 students. I'm not sure whats happening with 12 Sig Grp trades but 2 Sig Bde is changing their Operator trades to ICS Op (regulars following suite soon), so it may be an idea to see whats coming up.

Lastly I know your in a 'fun' trade but 12 Sig Grp is getting new equipment (I'm not 100% sure what it is so don't PM), the operators will not be from your trade and its probably kit you'd be good at using......

You know what I'm saying ..... the force is strong in the switch side :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 
#4
Thanks polar

MSR , I didnt ask my psi as course info "sometimes" takes a while to filter through in some sqns

I know there are some on this website who are very good at keeping their ear to the ground
 
#5
The systems course ran last month for the first time in three years and the total number of students was 3 !

Given that I understand in order to get your third you need to be class 1, why wasn't it oversubscribed ? Surely I can't be the only TA Cpl SysOp looking for promotion in the past three years (the other two people on the course were lance jacks so were getting it in early).
 

scaryspice

LE
Moderator
#7
ALL Class 1 TA courses are undersubscribed. Many run with 30% or less of the course capacity.

So as, yes, it is a requirement now for promotion to Sgt, why does it happen?

Please let's not have "Blandford always cancels the courses" as I am sure most of us can see this is a circular argument.....

Polar 69 - it should be an annual thing - but if only 3 students bothered to attend after no courses were run for two years - you can hardly be surprised if RSS don't put on more courses....
 
#8
When I spoke to my PSI about 6 weeks prior to the course running he told me that there were 9 people booked on and that 9 was the minimum, so be prepared for it to be cancelled. So when I got there on the Sunday and found out it was just 3 I was in half a mind whether to unpack or not as I was certain I'd be told to go home again in the morning.

I'm glad I wasn't though, having such a low number meant that we all got first class tuition and were able to cover extra topics that weren't on the original plan because we were able to get through things quicker. For example the first day and a half was supposed to be taken up by an introduction to SCRAT and then preparing a SCRAT user brief, which we completed in a single day.

Scary - I agree with you that the 'Blandford always cancel the course' argument doesn't stand up as the only reason for low numbers, however by cancelling courses in the past the expectation is created that courses won't run in the future. This could put people off applying as if you book two weeks off work and end up not going it is basically a year wasted. Whilst I can understand the argument for cancelling Cpls or SSgts courses due to requiring a minimum number to make up the posts on exercise (and they of course come round more often), for trade courses that doesn't hold true. As my recent experiance shows the fewer people the better from a students perspective and as the DS are already booked why cancel ?

Of course it could be that I am the only TA Cpl looking for his third, but somehow I doubt that. To me that would indicate that either people are getting the nod on the condition they do the course within x years and then not bothering or that the rule isn't being applied at all, so why bother unless you need to make up a course in lieue of camp.
 
#9
I for one am looking to do the Class one course for two reasons.

1. As a relay op who started out in euromux and went onto ptarmigan I feel I am well rounded enough to draw a great deal of benefit from such a course

2. Its a bit of a no brainer that as a requirement for promotion the course needs to be done , as early as possible really


So, I should now start canvassing my fellow relay ops to build numbers up for upcoming courses
 
#12
IDONTNEEDAHAIRCUT said:
I'm glad I wasn't though, having such a low number meant that we all got first class tuition and were able to cover extra topics that weren't on the original plan because we were able to get through things quicker. For example the first day and a half was supposed to be taken up by an introduction to SCRAT and then preparing a SCRAT user brief, which we completed in a single day.
That is very encouraging to hear, I was on the last course to run before yours (we had four people on it). 50% of the course complained about it, so its good to hear that Blandford must have listened and improved the course. However from what you've mentioned about the course it does sound very familiar.

Did you also do recce reports, why are switch bitches being trained to do a RR job?

p69, would be interested to see your course programme after you've completed RR. I have a feeling they are the same as Sys Ops
 
#13
IDNAH - RSS are very aware of the issue about people booking time off work and the implications if a course is cancelled. The cancelled SSgts course and its ramifications is only too clear in everyone's mind and they will do all they can NOT to allow that to happen again. As far as I understand it, there will not be a similar incident in future with trade courses.

No people certainly should NOT be getting their third "on a promise" and I believe you will find that Glasgow will not allow the rule to be bypassed - no Class 1 paperwork no third tape. I'd be interested to know (no names no pack drill - PM if you'd rather) if anyone knows different?

I'm glad to hear the course was good - I hope you were asked formally for feedback?

As for being the only TA Cpl looking for a third - this is an interesting point - how many do you think there are in this position in your Regiment? How many of those are in your trade? There is a good reason for me asking this which I won't go into here - feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post the answers here. :)

Polar69 - yes you should certainly be encouraging other Class 2s to get on the courses - again are there many in that position in your trade that you know of?

Polar - you know someone is listening then :D
 
#14
scaryspice said:
As for being the only TA Cpl looking for a third - this is an interesting point - how many do you think there are in this position in your Regiment?
In a TA Ptarmigan Sqn, you have around 2 AS Op (P)(V) Sgt slots and about 4 Cpl slots. So 12 Sig Grp in total will probably have 18 Systems Sgts and 36 Cpls...... Numbers are similar for RS Op(P) and double that for Radio Relays

I'm not aware of any AS Op JNCO/SNCO that didn't get mobilised.

No wonder people aren't/can't going on courses

IDNAH, I think you know who I am :lol:
 
#15
I certainly do know who you are Polar and yes we did do recce's.

The aim of the course as explained to us is not to make us better operators, but rather to enable us to better manage the Ptarmigan system and the people who make it work. By doing recce's it does at least give us an insight into what is required of a comms site and stops us thinking solely in terms of switch or access and instead makes us think the next level up. Likewise the modules on EW and InfoSec are not really relevant on a day to day basis at the moment but increase the breadth of knowledge we have and could/would provide the fundations to build on if we ever climb the slippery slope towards a Yoeman post. Besides they were interesting subjects in themselves, especially the EW stuff and the kit they showed us.

Scary - We were asked for feedback and on the whole it was very positive. We were all very pleased with the standard of instruction and the extra training that had been fitted in. I think that caused the assesor some problems though because as we didn't follow the original training plan there wouldn't be continuity with later courses. The only negative thing for me was the accomodation, I'm 37 and spending two weeks in a room with a load of 19/20 year old techs wasn't my idea of fun, but I'm an unsociable git :D

I knew Polar would the maths on the number of operators !
 
#16
polar said:
scaryspice said:
As for being the only TA Cpl looking for a third - this is an interesting point - how many do you think there are in this position in your Regiment?
In a TA Ptarmigan Sqn, you have around 2 AS Op (P)(V) Sgt slots and about 4 Cpl slots. So 12 Sig Grp in total will probably have 18 Systems Sgts and 36 Cpls...... Numbers are similar for RS Op(P) and double that for Radio Relays
And that assumes all the slots are filled - is that in fact the case? It also assumes that all the Cpls WANT to be Sgts..... I think we may be getting to the crux of why the courses aren't well-subscribed. Try the maths with Driver lineman and see what you get :D

So does the problem of not having enough people in fact start much lower down at say Phase 1 or Class 3......
 
#17
scaryspice said:
And that assumes all the slots are filled - is that in fact the case?
I believe that Haircuts Sqn has no systems SNCO's (thats now including 1xSSgt). I think the relay trade is in similar position.

I'm not sure if the trades that 12 Sig Grp makes them more likely to be mobilised, TA Sigs have huge numbers of RS Ops but very few AS Ops.
Most ARRC units have a large numbers of AS Ops, guess Afghanistan will hit 12 Sig Grps operators harder than 2 Sig Bde.
 
#18
polar said:
guess Afghanistan will hit 12 Sig Grps operators harder than 2 Sig Bde.
I don't think that it is going to hit them at all...

msr
 
#19
msr said:
polar said:
guess Afghanistan will hit 12 Sig Grps operators harder than 2 Sig Bde.
I don't think that it is going to hit them at all...

msr
I think msr is right.....
 
#20
IDONTNEEDAHAIRCUT said:
but increase the breadth of knowledge we have and could/would provide the fundations to build on if we ever climb the slippery slope towards a Yoeman post.
haircut, I do hope you follow that route - you have the right skill set.

You might want to look away now as I explain some other things.

AS Op(P), is the hardest trade to attain in the TA Sigs (and is also the prime route to YofS in a Ptarmigan unit)

Class 3 (excluding recruits) involves a 10 day trade course, Cat C driving license (after a B license if thats needed) - a 1 week course an DITS - If you want ur LCpl

Class 2 also involves another 10 day trade course and 2 week TA Cpls course if u want to be a Cpl

Class 1 is a two week trade course plus one week C+E course, giving the person

I suppose we could say for every rank u need to do 3 weeks of courses, they amount of time it takes for a soldier to be able to undertake a Class 1 course is far far more than any trade in 2 Sig Bde.

So now we are at haircuts position and he wants to go YofS, he now although having undertaken far more training than anyone else he must retrade as a RS Op (BASIC) whereas a 2 Sig Bde operator could do their crypto/SSgts/YofS course and become a YofS.

What I can't tell haircut is once he's got to YofS in a Ptarmigan unit is that he will rarely do the job, regular Systems Ops/Techs will run OSC leaving him little to do (with 6 PSI's per sqn what else is going to happen?).

Lastly I woud just like to add that a 2 Sig Bde regt has 3 YofS slots closer to haircuts location than 34 Sigs has, those slots are also far more demanding than 34's slot, fancy being 15 or 42 Inf Bde's YofS or YofS of the medics/logistics types.

p.s. I did my retrade in less than 6 mnths
 
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