clarke makes second id card bid

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by yannie, May 25, 2005.

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  1. source bbc news

    Clarke makes second ID card bid

    Mr Clarke says he will listen to MPs' concerns about the bill
    The government's latest plans for compulsory identity cards are set to be unveiled by Charles Clarke.
    The home secretary said he accepted genuine worries had been raised about the previous bill, which was dropped ahead of the general election.

    The Conservatives say they will oppose the introduction of the controversial cards unless ministers "conclusively prove" they are needed.

    The Lib Dems oppose the plans and some Labour MPs have civil liberties fears.

    Mr Clarke will unveil the latest ID Cards Bill in the House of Commons on Wednesday.

    The Home Office has estimated that ID theft costs Britain £1.3bn a year.

    Earlier this week, Mr Clarke urged Labour MPs opposed to the scheme to examine proposed "safeguards" in the bill.

    He also offered to meet critics to discuss their concerns, which are centred on civil liberty issues.

    He promised that information held on people through the cards would not be "substantial".

    "I believe it is critically important that we do tackle the issues of identity fraud," he said.

    "What I hope is that we can have a rational discussion about the various issues."

    The Conservatives initially voted for the ID card legislation in the last Parliament but abstained in the key Commons vote, saying the plans had to pass five tests.

    The tests included issues connected to the technology and a call for the bill to "clearly define" the purpose of the cards.

    'Fundamental change'

    Mr Clarke said the new legislation answered concerns raised by shadow home secretary David Davis.

    He urged the Tories to shed the "fig-leaf" of opposition that it had put up to cover repeated shifts in its stance on the measure.

    Mr Davis, however, stood by the actions of the Tories and said he could not currently recommend his party supported the bill.

    "On an issue of this importance, one that represents such a fundamental change in the relationship between the citizen and the state, the government must make the case and conclusively prove the need for such a change," he said.

    He pointed to "extreme doubts" raised by experts about the viability of the technology and asked why the bill was being pushed through while those questions were unanswered.

    "The database is the thing that makes this a change of relationship between the individual and the state. And they have no answer as to how they are going to protect that database," said Mr Davis.

    "Your only answer to this was: other people are doing the same thing. Well, I have to say that is a pretty weak answer on something as important as this."

    Chance of defeat

    Liberal Democrat spokesman Mark Oaten accused the Tories of "sitting on the fence" over the issue.

    "If they were to have the courage to come off that fence and to join with the Liberal Democrats, and I hope many on the Labour back benches, who share this view, we could defeat the ID card scheme," he said.

    Senior backbencher Gwyneth Dunwoody said some Labour MPs were uneasy about the scheme.

    "The history of police forces or governments holding every element of information about people's lives is not that they are always used responsibly, but used in some instances by governments for the worst possible reasons," she said.

    hi everyone there is good and bad points regarding introducing id cards.

    what do you this regarding this matter

    kindest regards

  2. Yannie word of advice, altoug you read things on the bbc or from a newspaper, PLease remember to post the link to the site as verification

    So have you got the link
  3. sorry i dont how to do it
  4. Too bloody right the Tories and Liberals should oppose the bill. Not that I think ID cards are a bad idea but it will only take a few very red socialists (if New Labour have any socialists left) to set BLiar off into a panic. Losing a important vote early on in this parliament will mean BLiar has to go. Once he's gone we'll get Broon. A man with as much charisma as gout.
  5. [quote="IdleAdjt" Not that I think ID cards are a bad idea .[/quote]

    Despite what my signature says, neither to do BUT when the government, any government, wants to impose them on its citizens then you have to wake up and say NO, NO, a thousand times NO.

    I have carried an id card, of one sort or another since I was 15 but they were voluntary. I didn't have to join the cake, travel abroad, drive a car, or work for an IT company I chose to. That's the difference.

    It's another punish (charge) the innocent for the sins of the guilty. It wont stop terrorism, benefit fraud, or identity theft. If anything it will aid all of the above whilst creating another organised crime branch - id card forgery.

    I would ask everyone to browse the URL in my signature. Remember politicians are controllers by inclination. They want you where they can manipulate you. Compulsory id cards must be every poli's wet dream.
  6. I am sorry but if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. The introduction of card will not immediately make us a police state. People complain of job culture, immigration and raising crime and demand that the police and government do something they are now doing something and funny old thing people are getting het up about it. They are coming kids and I for on have a space in my wallet ready.
  7. Don't trot out the ol' 'nothing to hide' chestnut, Greengrass.

    Things you have to fear:

    1. vast cost.
    2. inept IT and government messing things up to your detriment
    3. sinister misuse at some point by officials or interlopers to the system
    4. gold standard ID when used by crims will make it much much easier for them to be very naughty indeed.
    5. lying government pretending it works to save face when really things (benefit fraud, illegal workers) will get worse.

    Anyway, if you think you need some sort of license to stand outdoors in you own country, breathing your own air, you must be mad or a tw@.
  8. ....And the cnuts will still make you pay to have it!
  9. We'll feck this one like we did the last one. Bend over, Clarkie!
  10. I forgot that one. Cheers.

    I'm not going to carry one, and it will only take 3% of the UK to join me and this will indeed be Bliars poll tax. Hooray.
  11. It is not really a matter whether you like the idea or not but it is a bill that causes ruffled feathers in the House. We should all hope that this flagship of BLiar's will sink in the commons vote and will lead to him being ousted. I urge anyone who has the misfortune to have a local Labour MP to write to him expressing your opposition to the ides. Enough local pressure will help to put the skids under BLiar.
  12. I may be mad and or a twat but I don’t see how it relevant. The above point with the exception of 4 could be held against any government plan labour or conservative no plan is perfect or to coin a phrase “survives first contact” The fact is that this is a solution to some of the many problems facing this country it may not work only time will tell but I believe that it deserves the support of honest members of the public. Plenty of scum will try to beat the system and I don’t see how irate little Englander going out of there way to disrupt it will help. If the idea offends you so much join a political party gain leadership get made PM and pursue a different policy or just move some where else.
  13. Yannie this is the last time I am going to tell you this.

    1. You do know how to do it , it is the same way you manage to paste articles.

    2. You are still cutting and pasting articles in their entireity , which opens us up to copyright issues.

    Most electronic organs tolerate cutting and pasting of articles, when there is only a small selection posted, with A LINK BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE.

    Here's how it works from now on.

    Anything you post that doesn't meet the three rules outline I have given you repeatedly , will be deleted.

    1. Include a source URL
    2. Include a SMALL EXCERPT of the article only
    3. Include your opinion.

    Anything that doesn't meet this really basic criteria will be culled.

    Tricks using quotation boxes etc, should best be covered after basic grammar etc

  14. And it solves these problems how exactly? Never really had a coherent explanation of what problems ID cards solve and how...

    The only practical consequences I can see are a very large addition to the tax bill and a single piece of plastic that, if stolen or duplicated, will give some random scum complete access to my identity. Add to that the worrying trend for major Government IT projects to degenerate into major cake-and-arrse parties and you have a series of compelling reasons not to go ahead.

    Oh yes - and we got through twenty plus years of the IRA and the other NI terrorist groups bombing, beating, shooting and stabbing on a near daily basis without the need for ID cards. I don't see how a bunch of teatowel wearing nutters - who seem quite contained under the present systems - justify a measure normally introduced only when the country is in a state of total war.