Civvies to take over Search & Rescue Role

#1
#2
With your searching skills I don't reckon you'll get the job.
 
#4
Makes sense, SAR was an off-shoot of the old ASR, aircrew for the rescuing of, icey watery death from. Now we've got ****-all fast jet/slow transport/in-between thingy we may as well get out of that game too. I mean its not as if we'll ever need trained 'chopper crew for anything.....
 
#7
It's a crock of shit - Along with that every county has a 'lowland' search team, which works in conjunction with RAF and occasionally Coastguard, but more often are called out by Fire Service for rural searches or primarily support, or are brought in instead of the police search teams.

Now, I was Police search trained, both urban and rural in East Suffolk where a lot of high flying diplomats, ex Met Commissioners, MP's, and MI5 operatives live.. So we had a lot of bomb/suspicious object searches at events, and rural sweeps before they returned from trips and took up residence again.

The team I volunteer with is in constant turmoil, the bloke in charge is only in it for the recognition he gets, there is no discipline or common sense, power struggles, and more recently - security breaches with details of searches being posted on social networks.Those who actually have the knowledge and experience to search properly are drowned out by what you would describe as the 'walts'.

Losing the Military side of it is going to have a disastrous impact on the amount of people saved, and the number of people found within the stated time limits. The private companies are going to scrimp on training and running costs as they always do, so further sub-standard 'search operatives' are going to join the market.

It's b*+%cks!
 
#8
PsyCop, B0ll0x it may be, but it is money saving b0ll0x. And that is what counts. Don' forget that people are easily made in large numbers by unskilled labour, so the occasional "shortfall" will be quickly solved.
Problems? What problems?
 
#10
I don't know. Strikes me that it offers good career opportunities for RN /AAC / RAF helicopter pilots and crews once they retire. Many of the police /ambulance /Bristows / Coastguard crews seem to be ex-services.
 
#11
It's a crock of shit - Along with that every county has a 'lowland' search team, which works in conjunction with RAF and occasionally Coastguard, but more often are called out by Fire Service for rural searches or primarily support, or are brought in instead of the police search teams.

Now, I was Police search trained, both urban and rural in East Suffolk where a lot of high flying diplomats, ex Met Commissioners, MP's, and MI5 operatives live.. So we had a lot of bomb/suspicious object searches at events, and rural sweeps before they returned from trips and took up residence again.

The team I volunteer with is in constant turmoil, the bloke in charge is only in it for the recognition he gets, there is no discipline or common sense, power struggles, and more recently - security breaches with details of searches being posted on social networks.Those who actually have the knowledge and experience to search properly are drowned out by what you would describe as the 'walts'.

Losing the Military side of it is going to have a disastrous impact on the amount of people saved, and the number of people found within the stated time limits. The private companies are going to scrimp on training and running costs as they always do, so further sub-standard 'search operatives' are going to join the market.

It's b*+%cks!
Not sure it is.

Why are you blending landlocked footslogging search teams with rotary SAR in your argument? What's the relevance to police search and rotary SAR? What's the impact of it being civilian? Have you a clue what you are talking about?

COCO SAR in places where it may be efficient could be the way to go and is a model that already exists in the UK.
 
#13
Dont get lost... simples.

SAR is a government funded task, all to often it involves a search for dumbfucks who bimble up mountains in flipflops or who go deep sea fishing on lilos.

If the mundane can be done cheaper by HelosRus and that means an Infantry battalion can be saved from the chop then fair play, I'm for it.
 
#14
Not sure it is.

Why are you blending landlocked footslogging search teams with rotary SAR in your argument? What's the relevance to police search and rotary SAR? What's the impact of it being civilian? Have you a clue what you are talking about?

COCO SAR in places where it may be efficient could be the way to go and is a model that already exists in the UK.
A few clues sir, Yes..

Rotary SAR and footslogging search teams as you put it work in conjunction in many circumstances.. Regional police forces don't want to tie their helicopters up, so call in the military, granted it's mainly in cases of escaped convicts and high risk searches, as evidenced in the search for Raoul Moat.
 
#15
Dont get lost... simples.

SAR is a government funded task, all to often it involves a search for dumbfucks who bimble up mountains in flipflops or who go deep sea fishing on lilos.

If the mundane can be done cheaper by HelosRus and that means an Infantry battalion can be saved from the chop then fair play, I'm for it.
It also involves saving the lives of seamen lost servicing the trade of this country:

BBC News - MV Swanland survivors pay tribute to rescue services
 
#16
I struggle to see why this is a problem to tell the truth.

The civvy based SAR is meant to be getting 24 Sikorsky S-92's operating from 12 bases throughout the UK, giving better coverage than at present.

the Coast Guard will still be operating their SAR facilities.

Military SAR capabilities will still be there, it's just the MoD have decided that offering free rescue to stupid ******* who decide to climb mountains in shit weather or walkers that think trainers and a pac a mac are fine for Rannoch Moor is not financially acceptable any more...and too right really. They will continue to operate (according to the UKSAR organisational document produced by the Government), but in a purely military role.

However, they will attend civvy SAR requests where there are large scale disastors or where civvy SAR cannot be summond.

Quote direct from the document....

"Exceptionally, if military SAR helicopter assistance is necessary for
immediate lifesaving, provision has been made for the MCA to make direct
contact with the nearest helicopter unit and request assistance. In this
instance, the requesting authority is to inform the ARCC as soon as
possible afterwards."

I work in the oil and gas industry where this had caused great concern...the operators now believe they will get a better service from civvy operators as the crews are more used to flying onto rigs and platforms.
 
#17
A few clues sir, Yes..

Rotary SAR and footslogging search teams as you put it work in conjunction in many circumstances.. Regional police forces don't want to tie their helicopters up, so call in the military, granted it's mainly in cases of escaped convicts and high risk searches, as evidenced in the search for Raoul Moat.
And why could than not be a COCO 412, for example? What's the top speed of the Sea King Mk3A? is the distribution of yellow bananas in the UK the best for the task, or based on where there's a military facility? Come to think of it, what's the endurance of a 3A? How old are they getting?

Could the contract not be written to ensure that you get an adequate sufficiency of familiarisation on a new COCO/COMO craft (5 mins per lifetime being sufficient for search teams I would think) to avoid your internecine team breaking their thermos's?
 
#18
And why could than not be a COCO 412, for example? What's the top speed of the Sea King Mk3A? is the distribution of yellow bananas in the UK the best for the task, or based on where there's a military facility? Come to think of it, what's the endurance of a 3A? How old are they getting?

Could the contract not be written to ensure that you get an adequate sufficiency of familiarisation on a new COCO/COMO craft (5 mins per lifetime being sufficient for search teams I would think) to avoid your internecine team breaking their thermos's?
Your ideas of grandeur within this conversation are beyond me sir.

I am not into the technical or mechanical aspects, just stating my non-military opinion purely in respect of the life saving needs, and experience gained in both service controlled and non-service controlled land searches.
 
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