civvie job and the TA

#1
Basically I left the reg's 2 years ago and have thought about going back but to be honset cant see myself giving up my civvie life to go back full time.
Ive been down the local TA unit, they seem like a good bunch and Ive done all the paperwork etc.
Not been able to get down the past 2 weeks due to work although they said glasgow could take a while to sort my docs out.
Now here comes the problem although it may be a self made one, i enjoy my civvie job and work hard so i can get promoted and move upwards, ive basically been told the sky is the limit on this and its down to me.
Has anybody found there civvie employer limiting members of staff due to the TA, i want to commit to the TA and deploy but at the same time I dont want to jepordise my civvie job. I know if your deploy your protected but i feel that if i volunteer then it would be a step back with my civvie company and maybe even a reason for me to find myself jobless, due to the current climate they may find it easier to lose me rather than the man next to me.
has anybody got any advice or words of wisdom?
thanks
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
tothepubandbeyond said:
Just to point out, as far as I know you're job isn't protected if you volounteer for tour whereas if you get compusarirly mobilised you are
Yes, but many Units run a policy of 'Intelligent' Mobilisation whereby you volunteer to get called up, and receive COMPULSORY orders to report to Chilwell, or wherever its done these days. Find out what the score is with your Civvy jobs' relationship with SABRE, if they have one. Its worth a try to get the compulsory call (a lot of Units expect it now within XYZ number of years of joining anyway), but bear in mind that a lot of Companies (IE small businesses) can get around the 'job protection' for compulsory call - ups if the nature of the role you do changes. A lot of people were caught out over that one around 2003. It might have swung more in favour of the employee/reservist, but check first.
 
#4
If you have a look in your works personnel handbook you should find out whether your work has a policy on the TA - leave for annual camp, who you have to notify etc.

The Police force limit the number of employees in the TA, but others prohibit you joining (prison force I think). Some companies like BAE encourage TA membership - but the MOD is a major customer!

Some employers are happy with their employees being in the TA, others are quite anti and if you want to get on in your career it may be a good idea to find out where your company stands.
 
#5
I wouldn't bank on the deployment protection offereing you very much actual protection if it comes down to it (and if your employer is so inclined). Also as you are already working your employer is quite within his right to not allow you to join the TA as most employment contracts prohibit the employee having a part time job (without your companies permission). Mine certainly does (i'm an architect). If you don't tell them about the TA and you are deployed then technically youare in breech of contract and you could be dismissed.
If you deploy then they have to hold your job open for you but there is nothing to stop them making you redundant a week after you get back!
 
#6
Don't deploy. Your civvie job pays the bills and is the future.

Unless the economic downturn hits (and you are not a bailiff), then use the TA for a tour.

msr
 
#7
Get your boss onside. End of. And if you can't, then you have to choose between work and the TA. That is the harsh reality.

Never, ever try and mislead your boss. As mentioned above, your contract most likely has a clause about having to tell them about other jobs in it. If you don't, you've lied to your employer and they are quite within their rights to sack you for that lie. The Army won't help, it never asked you to lie after all. Oh, and they will find out as the mob now writes to your employer regularly. Ignore the knobs who suggest you volunteer for a tour and act surprised when the envelope turns up. Your boss can read the SABRE websites stating that only voulunteers are taken these days and will know you lied to him.

The only thing your firm can't do is sack you for being in the TA. They can abort your career quite legally. They can also decide not to employ you for being in quite legally.

Sorry to be so negative, but it's where we are. The Army will do nothing at all to sort out your civvy job should you get problems - well, SABRE might hand out a leaflet or two - so get your civvy job squared away as your first priority.
 
#8
I wouldnt lie to them and there is a small section about the TA in my contract, it refers manily to HGV drivers and complying with the working time directive etc.
They are on side but the harsh reality of seeing me leave for 8-9 months may infact change that as none of them have any experiance of the army or ta.
As much as i want to do my part with the ta and deploying i dont want to lose or risk my civvie job because of it, i served for long enough to know the army will always take more than they give.
maybe i need to have a formal chat with them and see what they say
 
#9
I'm in the same boat to be honest. I'd love to deploy and there is a certain amount of pressure from some in my team for me to do so. Work know i'm in the TA and so far i have been able to do everything within my normal annual leave. They have no TA policy and i don't get any extra days or anything. If i went away for a year i would miss my annual salary review so i'd be even further behind everyone else (i came into my trade late in life) plus there are all kinds of professional implications re remaining current with CPD etc.
 
#10
Rockhopperst4 said:
If i went away for a year i would miss my annual salary review so i'd be even further behind everyone else (i came into my trade late in life) plus there are all kinds of professional implications re remaining current with CPD etc.
Yours is an honest post, and one that has probably never been considered by the Review.

If the regular army wants me to put my civvie career on hold for a year, then they are going to have to offer something which will bridge this gap: and Watchkeeper / LO / CIMIC doesn't cut it.

msr
 
#11
As an ex-reg you shouldn't you be exempt from deployment for a while (3 yrs?).

Not sure if that's the same if you had a 2 year gap before joining the TA.
 
#12
mark1234 said:
As an ex-reg you shouldn't you be exempt from deployment for a while (3 yrs?).

Not sure if that's the same if you had a 2 year gap before joining the TA.
Do you have the reference for this?

msr
 
#13
One_of_the_strange said:
Your boss can read the SABRE websites stating that only voulunteers are taken these days and will know you lied to him.
Didn't some of the MI bns get compulsorarily mobilised not so long ago though? (could have sworn I read that on here somewhere)
 
#14
Blinder said:
One_of_the_strange said:
Your boss can read the SABRE websites stating that only voulunteers are taken these days and will know you lied to him.
Didn't some of the MI bns get compulsorarily mobilised not so long ago though? (could have sworn I read that on here somewhere)
That was before the memo from LAND in Nov 04 stipulating there would be no more compulsorary mobilisations (until further notice anyway)
 
#15
thegreyman said:
Blinder said:
One_of_the_strange said:
Your boss can read the SABRE websites stating that only voulunteers are taken these days and will know you lied to him.
Didn't some of the MI bns get compulsorarily mobilised not so long ago though? (could have sworn I read that on here somewhere)
That was before the memo from LAND in Nov 04 stipulating there would be no more compulsorary mobilisations (until further notice anyway)
I was one of those so mobilised in 2002 for Veritas, pre-Telic. It was frankly a cluster, mitigated only by the small scale and hard work by the Bn. When it was repeated for Telic only on a much larger scale - Chilwell were apparently incapable of learning from the Bn PXRs - the backlash was such that "intelligent mobilisation" was born. And that is what the LAND memo puts into place.

All that said, given the number of trawls these days for mobilisation, FTRS and popping in a few days a week if you can spare the time I would be very surprised if we didn't return to no-option mobilisation next year.
 
#16
I can relate to this..........

The sugar coated version: I work for a major company in the UK, who fully support the Reserve Forces and as part of that, would also support my deploying on Operations with the Regular Battalions. This in turn gives me with job security and that warm fuzzy feeling knowing the senior management team are watching my back.

The reality: I work as part of a small team and have a specialist role. Learning this role takes time and if I were mobilised, there wouldnt be time (or a budget) to train anyone else. This means my team would suffer, my department would suffer and in turn my company would suffer. Because of this, come the salary review and/or promotion opportunities board, I would put to the bottom of the pile and may even be re-located to another team (my job is secure but not my role..... Im sure they could get away with that).

So what do you do? I have a wife, kids, mortgage and a decent and promising career that pays well, but I also want to deploy on Operations and do my bit.

In all honesty I dont think theres an easy answer and you will have to decide whats more important to you. Perhaps working on your career until you hit a plateau and then deploying on Ops? That way you can come back, knuckle down for a couple of years and start to climb the ladder again.

Whatever you decide, good luck!!


Spenny
 
#17
I gave my employer 8 years of bloody hard work, and trained up others to do my job too. Not just to cover leave etc but to enhance their own skills.

Upon joining the TA, my employer made my job so much harder.

Couldnt get time off, etc etc and they threw a wobbly at every request. I politely pointed out that the only holidays I'd taken for three years were the Crimbo ones.

Work colleagues suffered when I was away because the owners gave the guys such a hard time (who could do the job) simply because I'd used time off.

After 8 years of unblemished service I jacked the day job and did more TA.

The company is now going down the swannee because they never invested in the other staff - serves them right - w*nkers.

Unfortunately most jobs were agency based (and irregular at times) as prospective full time employers would run scared upon being told of TA committment.

This is a nightmare when you've a mortgage etc - so think very carefully chaps.

Due to this and the fact that my daughter will be moving in with me I'm having to leave the TA and hand my kit in next week.

I'm gutted and will miss the TA but my family must come first.

I am very disilussioned at employers' attitudes (I can see their side of it too of course) but that is the way it is I'm sorry to say.

So beware those of you who are weighing things up.

It's okay if you're a "youngster" with no family committmets etc but not so easy for those of us who decide to return later in life to lend a hand.

Good luck
 
#18
There is another side to this though.

I work in IT, in what could also be described as a "specialist role, that requires a lot of training". there are however, a large number of contractors out there ready to slot in. MOD pay them my salary whilst I'm deployed, plus any increase necessary to get someone with the correct skills and experience. It takes about 2 weeks to handover.

One of my colleagues is currently deployed, and that is what's happening with him.

Plus the MOD pay him the extra to make his salary up fromhis rank (Lcpl), to what he actually gets paid here.

The same will apply to me when I go at the end of next summer.

Our employer is well on side though.
 
#19
Thats the difference 4th of Foot...

Your employers were supportive.

Mine just didn't want to know. Even with the MoD assistance available.
I think its written into contracts now no TA service - but not sure.

Well done your mob.
 
#20
msr said:
mark1234 said:
As an ex-reg you shouldn't you be exempt from deployment for a while (3 yrs?).

Not sure if that's the same if you had a 2 year gap before joining the TA.
Do you have the reference for this?

msr
No sorry, that's why I phrased it as a question as I'm going by what an ex-reg colour sgt told me, he reckoned he was exempt from bounty qualifications and annual camp as well.