Civvi Bill. Why not PQO?

#2
bogjockt said:
Laides/ Gents

As a lowly STAB (yeah, I know my place) I've read the various threads on this site. And yeah, some TA people do make us seem Walter Mitty(ish). I trust that as my STAB colleagues work more on more on Ops with you, this idea of us will decrease.

However, my point is this: Why are professional Police Officers not considered professionally qualified for the purposes of commissioning into the RMP? I recall executing ( as a civilian police officer) a warrant issued under the Army Act whilst Suits In Boots (SIB) waited for us to do the necessary (as per the conditions of the warrant). If the issuing authority of the warrant (as signed by the accused's CO) would only entrust a civilian police officer, what does that say of the RMP?

I do not compare my training to that of a doctor however I would not compare an RMP officer to an AMS officer/ doctor either! The jobs are so utterly different. So I am a professional, public money has been spent to train me albeit that civ. police trianing did not include route signing, "jobbing," speeding tanks or blowing the slightest thing out of all proportion! But i would also point out that a police officer must recall and apply the law under pressure and without recourse to a book which surely requires far more ability and knowledge than the solicitor/ AGC(ALS) officer who can sit back and read a mountain of texts before realising that the cop/ monkey was right all along!

And yes, I am asking from the TA perspective as there are a lot of us rozzers in the RMP(TA) these days.

Cheers.
Lol lol lol lol lol

Please tell me this is a total whahhhhhhhhhh!!

or are you a complete tosser???
 
#3
Maybe because you would be frontline effectively now as RMP, so the soldier element of the job is stronger than dr's and solicitors etc.

Maybe because as civy cops we know civy law very well but don't know millitary law at all, or many of the other elements of RMP, e.g. route signing, PW handling, CP etc etc

Or maybe because they don't really want to encourage cops to join the forces as you're stealing from one gvt sector to enhance another.

There is also a huge difference between the skills of different cops. Some need their sgt there 24/7 to advise them, others can run on their own - it doesn't have quite the same level of standard qualification and minimum skill level as other careers do.

That said, if i can slightly hijack this thread a touch. I'm getting v bored of civpol, v quickly. If i were to join RMPTA, and then in due course volunteer for tour, and ask for permanent transfer.. is this likely to happen, or are RMP different to infantry units? For what it's worth i have done a TA infantry CIC..
 
#4
Daytona955 said:
bogjockt said:
Laides/ Gents

As a lowly STAB (yeah, I know my place) I've read the various threads on this site. And yeah, some TA people do make us seem Walter Mitty(ish). I trust that as my STAB colleagues work more on more on Ops with you, this idea of us will decrease.

However, my point is this: Why are professional Police Officers not considered professionally qualified for the purposes of commissioning into the RMP? I recall executing ( as a civilian police officer) a warrant issued under the Army Act whilst Suits In Boots (SIB) waited for us to do the necessary (as per the conditions of the warrant). If the issuing authority of the warrant (as signed by the accused's CO) would only entrust a civilian police officer, what does that say of the RMP?

I do not compare my training to that of a doctor however I would not compare an RMP officer to an AMS officer/ doctor either! The jobs are so utterly different. So I am a professional, public money has been spent to train me albeit that civ. police trianing did not include route signing, "jobbing," speeding tanks or blowing the slightest thing out of all proportion! But i would also point out that a police officer must recall and apply the law under pressure and without recourse to a book which surely requires far more ability and knowledge than the solicitor/ AGC(ALS) officer who can sit back and read a mountain of texts before realising that the cop/ monkey was right all along!

And yes, I am asking from the TA perspective as there are a lot of us rozzers in the RMP(TA) these days.

Cheers.
Lol lol lol lol lol

Please tell me this is a total whahhhhhhhhhh!!

or are you a complete tosser???
Ane here lies the problem with the modern civvy Bill. This guy really believes he is a Professional up there with Lawyers, Doctors and chartered this and that. Best comparison is LCpl and probationary PC; Cpl Class One with 'qualified' PC.

As for RMP Officers they are neither fish nor foul, not professionals and not really officers in the true sense of the word as they tend to administer, supervise and manage rather than lead. I can see the case for many to be replaced by civvy HR managers but a PC right at the bottom of the Criminal Justice food chain really ought to keep their sense of perspective.
 
#5
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
 
#6
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
I still think he was taking the piss. Even a civvy copper in the TA cannot be as stupid as his post makes him out to be!!!
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#7
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
Neither do RMP Officers.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#8
Daytona955 said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
I still think he was taking the urine. Even a civvy copper in the TA cannot be as stupid as his post makes him out to be!!!
I can name at least 20 who are.
 
#9
Biscuits_AB said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
Neither do RMP Officers.
Awww Biccy-boy - did no-one lead you for all those years?
 
#10
Biscuits_AB said:
Daytona955 said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
I still think he was taking the urine. Even a civvy copper in the TA cannot be as stupid as his post makes him out to be!!!
I can name at least 20 who are.
Leave the TA SIB Section alone, don't pick on them just because they told you that you were far too old and out of date to join them!!!
 
#11
Daytona955 said:
Biscuits_AB said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
Neither do RMP Officers.
Awww Biccy-boy - did no-one lead you for all those years?
No, I think you will find that he shared the company of administrators of questionable ability.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#12
Daytona955 said:
Biscuits_AB said:
Daytona955 said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
I still think he was taking the urine. Even a civvy copper in the TA cannot be as stupid as his post makes him out to be!!!
I can name at least 20 who are.
Leave the TA SIB Section alone, don't pick on them just because they told you that you were far too old and out of date to join them!!!
Having spent a considerable part of my regular Army life being f*cked about by clowns on a near daily basis......why the f*ck would I want to repeat process as a civvy and in my time off?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#13
Daytona955 said:
Biscuits_AB said:
Shiny_pips said:
I think you've missed the point; RMP officers are there to lead (in the army we call it command), wheras PQOs are very specialist individuals employed for their qualification alone - they do not routinely lead soldiers.
Neither do RMP Officers.
Awww Biccy-boy - did no-one lead you for all those years?
Yes they did. But none of them were RMP Officers.
 
#14
Well that's me slapped down eh?

Shiny pips, point taken. I thought perhaps the leadership angle would be trained etc. however I would concede that doing this would go against the whole PQO thing. Cheers.

As for the entry re. Doctors, lawyers etc I thought I did say that I would not seek to compare the positions. I have however given evidence in court and been challenged on decisions by solicitors who have had far more time than I did to review the facts and all they can do is call you a liar!

Ladies and Gents, you seem to have taken this question to heart. Topic for discussion: nah, if you don't like it you just rip in! To the pi%s rippers....good job, I am humbled but your obviously superior intellects! Good to see open minds!

To those of you who did state the valid points: cheers. Always willing to listen (and learn).
 
#15
Bogjockt, I for one am more than willing to discuss, but lets start with your explanation as to why you feel a PC has comparison with a PQO?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#16
bogjockt said:
Well that's me slapped down eh?

Shiny pips, point taken. I thought perhaps the leadership angle would be trained etc. however I would concede that doing this would go against the whole PQO thing. Cheers.

As for the entry re. Doctors, lawyers etc I thought I did say that I would not seek to compare the positions. I have however given evidence in court and been challenged on decisions by solicitors who have had far more time than I did to review the facts and all they can do is call you a liar!
Ladies and Gents, you seem to have taken this question to heart. Topic for discussion: nah, if you don't like it you just rip in! To the pi%s rippers....good job, I am humbled but your obviously superior intellects! Good to see open minds!

To those of you who did state the valid points: cheers. Always willing to listen (and learn).
Well there you go then mucker. If you were to enlist into RMP as an OR you'd get the same treatment from Barristers. If you were to take up commissioned service, you wouldn't meet either, unless you were living in the same Mess as the ALS, as you won't be doing any form of police work.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#17
Shortty said:
Maybe because you would be frontline effectively now as RMP, so the soldier element of the job is stronger than dr's and solicitors etc.

Maybe because as civy cops we know civy law very well but don't know millitary law at all, or many of the other elements of RMP, e.g. route signing, PW handling, CP etc etc

Or maybe because they don't really want to encourage cops to join the forces as you're stealing from one gvt sector to enhance another.

There is also a huge difference between the skills of different cops. Some need their sgt there 24/7 to advise them, others can run on their own - it doesn't have quite the same level of standard qualification and minimum skill level as other careers do.

That said, if i can slightly hijack this thread a touch. I'm getting v bored of civpol, v quickly. If i were to join RMPTA, and then in due course volunteer for tour, and ask for permanent transfer.. is this likely to happen, or are RMP different to infantry units? For what it's worth i have done a TA infantry CIC..
Why don't you look at something completely different from policing or any form of it. What about RA or RE or something else. Avoid RMP. It may be a busman's holiday in some senses, but in others, you'll find the illusion shattered. What about the Yeomanry?
 
#18
Biscuits

Initially I was thinking RMP, as there are some bits of the civpol I enjoy, it's just too much paperwork, boredom, PC-ness and most cops are a bit soft tbh. Plus having done some of the training already I wouldn't be transferring as so much of an unskilled STAB.

I would have to be joining a corps or regiment where I was going to be mentally taxed. I'm reasonably intelligent, passed RCB years back, have a degree and all that bo11ox, but am now too old for DE ocifer entry, so looking at other options. Initially I thought of not being an officer as a drawback, but from more research I'm thinking that OR is the way to go with many of the more technical and skilled corps. But I still would need to be joining as lance jack really to justify the career change.

Basically I'm all up for leaving police, signing up to the army full time regular, start at phase 1, only thing making me think twice is it doesn't pay very well for at least 6 months. A TA transfer means not taking a 10+ grand pay drop for the initial training period, which at 29 does kinda hurt. I'm interested in the combat role of RMP and roles such as CP, more than the GP.

I'm also interested in Int Corps, probably HUMINT, but a TA transfer from TA Int Corps doesn't sound that plausible or advisable.

Don't know a great deal about RA, RE or Yeomanry, but am expecting the starting rank there to be Private, Gunner, Trooper etc, and if so it's not really an option.

Cheers for your input anyway, any words of advice appreciated.

Shortty
 
#19
Shortty, you say that you have a degree and have previously passed RCB, as such you would be incredibly frustrated and wasted as a LCpl RMP ot in fact any form of junior rank. Can I suggest that you pop down to your local ACIO and explore all of the options. Plenty have commissioned around your age and have had fulfilling careers so there must be a way of doing it and your time at university should count towards seniority.

I'm no expert but a TA Commission may be your way forward. Whatever you do do not sell yourself short or limit your options and if you join regular service as an OR you will find it a straight jacket as far as commissioning goes. Hopefully some of the late entry and older DE RMP officers who lurk here will get in touch and give you a few pointers.
 
#20
I've met and worked with some "proper thick" civvy coppers. No common sense at all so would, infact, be good candidates for commission.
 

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