Civilian armed response to terrorist incidents?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by A.N.Other, Jun 13, 2017.

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  1. Leaving aside the fact that as a never-served civvy I've only ever shot at paper/steel targets or clays there's also the psychological aspect of deliberately aiming a firearm at another person. I found it hard enough when buying a shotgun to have the bloke in the shop look down the barrels to see how my eye lined up with the bead, let alone trying to engage a terrorist moving about, maybe even shooting at me, likely with other innocent people running all over the place.
    However, get Jonny Jihadi to hold a Fig 14 target in front of his face, while standing still in front of a 15 foot sandbank, at a known distance out to 300 yards and I would be happy, if so ordered by a warranted constable, to attempt the shot from a comfortable prone position.
     
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  2. I did serve in the infantry including three tours across the water in the 1970's. I never shot anybody, a fact that I'm quite happy about. If however at anytime, I had cause to shoot someone, it would have been because they were trying to kill or injure me or my mates or members of the public. I wouldn't have hesitated to open fire.

    While some soldiers did have to shoot people, an act that a few of those who I knew personally did, I know they didn't enjoy doing it, they were defending themselves and the public. The same ethics apply to any terrorist regardless of their cause in this day and age. You have to deal with the aggressors before they deal with you.

    I don't own any firearms of any description but if I did and I was asked by an authority such as a police constable to shoot someone who was trying to maim and murder innocent civilians or unarmed police officers, I'd shoot as directed. Happily I know that situation will never happen to me but I would hope that if it would save lives, a firearms owner in that position. would do as they were asked.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  3. You might be surprised. In the US, the folks who are inclined towards carrying a firearm are also inclined to go to the range a lot. For many cops, they have no particular interest in their sidearm, beyond being something which they wear on their belt and are obligated to qualify with once a year, or whatever. Obviously in the UK you don't go around carrying your sidearm with you, but the folks who own one probably go to the range more often than the local constable, or shoot at small, rapidly moving bunny rabbits and foxes for farm duty.

    I note the migration of 'civilian' in the UK article to apparently mean 'private citizens.' A trend I can't say I've appreciated in the US, which seems to emphasise a sort of 'us vs them' mentality, despite the term being used in both US and international laws defined as 'not military'.

    As for police 'showing up to a gunfight and getting the wrong man', such things happen quite rarely in the US. From the U-Texas tower shooter to the Trolley Square Mall massacre, the cops haven't engaged the wrong person yet that I know of.
     
  4. Generally you can't own/possess sidearms / pistols in the UK , (a few can have them for humane dispatch).
    Generally we only have non repeating rifles (.22RF s/a are allowed) and we have shotguns, semi auto shotguns are
    allowed but must have a 24" barrel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  5. Apart, that is, for Section 1 Shotguns. You can have any barrel length you can get your FEO to agree to.
     
  6. Jesus could you imagine the carnage.

    Now TA for armed back up - thinking old Royal Irish - could be an option. Sort of like lifeboat crews - pager goes off and you leg it to the TA centre

    Thanks for the mention of old royal Irish as an option :)[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  7. In NI you can, also Section 5 aloes you to apply for one.
     
  8. Look up the word "generally".
     
  9. [/QUOTE]


    unless your going to have a TA qrf already in the drill hall that would be slightly less than useful capability. the met reacted and shot those terrorists in 8 mins. the TA are unlikely to reach the drill hall in half an hour.
    you could have a section in the drill hall ready to go but its likely to be expensive and not terribly useful
     
  10. Perhaps a better idea would be to train people in proper first aid with an emphasis on gsw and blast injuries and prepare them to deal with the aftermath of an attack?
     
  11. Getting back to the original article, there is no mention of a civilian QRF or any such nonsense, merely a hypothetical question regarding the use of a lawfully held firearm to stop a terrorist.
     
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  12. Yeah I think the answer was no, you could use a legally owned firearm in your home defending yourself, but taking your .22 out in your London apartment and Sniping potential Terrorists probably should never be legal.

    As to TA QRF - why not have Civilians who are taught to be Police Officers rather than Soldiers doing it, if you are a bit bored then join both TA and Specials and double your chances of some action. In fact, join the Lifeboats guys and Mountain Rescue too.

    Are all Special Constables still short arse wife beaters with a chip on their shoulder and a well thumbed copy of Mein Kampf?
     
  13. Th
    There was no answer that everyone agreed on.

    While the law allows a member of the public to use "reasonable force" to protect themselves or others from a crime, the definition of "reasonable force" is subjective and ultimately down to a court to decide on in that particular situation. It may be reasonable for a firearms owner to shoot a terrorist to end a situation and protect others. That said, it would have to be a bloody dire situation! The same applies in the home,with no distinction between the home and a public place.

    Following a thread drift there was a general agreement that an armed militia/civilian paramilitary roving "terrorist take down squad" would not be a good idea.
     

  14. I think you might be surprised at just how quickly those genetically-programmed primal instincts kick in when its a "him or me" situation. Pretty much everyone, male or female, has the killer instinct when the situation demands.

    A sporting shooter is arguably quite well equipped to be as effective a "combat shot" as a policeman or even serviceman: the shooter will probably have had more practice, will know the zero on their firearms at multiple ranges, and - if he/she has had any involvement at leading a "moving target" in live or paper shooting - will have some ability to hit a mobile individual.
     
  15. But but the Sharia Patrols work, no one pukes on a mosque any more....are they still happening back there in Blighty or was it a media stunt?