Civil war in Iraq might suit the Wests interests

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Mr_Logic, Jan 14, 2007.

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  1. In my mind this is a brilliant article from today's Sunday Times, mainly for the concept it puts forward. I particularly like the last paragraph and the second half of the penultimate one.

    The idea that the West is viewed as the enemy, but if we withdraw it becomes a Sunni versus Shi'ite fight, is definitely food for thought. Didn't we used to say something similar about the Balkans?

    What do you think? What are the counter arguments?
  2. No counter arguments from me. A civil war that is contained within Iraq, is much prefered to a civil war that spills beyond Iraq's borders. As crass as this might sound, it might turn out to be the best alternative.
  3. This may of course have been the real plan all along.
  4. I can't help but think we're being played for fools, the same people who are attacking us are the same people pleading for us to stay, because they know they'll be on the recieving end of a sunni backlash if we pull out.
  5. Very true. I liken it to this type of situation: Say you are heavily in debt and can't pay back what you owe. Your creditors are falling all over themselves to give you more money at no cost to you. As a matter of fact , you don't have to pay them back. Would you turn them down? Probably not.

    The Iraqi power players know, we need them more than they need us. So long as the status quo persists, we will continue pouring in resources into Iraq.

    We are the pawns in this game. Worst thing about this? We still think we are calling the plays.
  6. TheIronDuke

    TheIronDuke LE Book Reviewer

    As me old mate Sherlock might say, "Who benefits?"

    The oil cartels, Haliburton, the CIA and Bush's ability to enforce scary legislation like the Patriot Act. I dont want to go all Michael Moore here, but just as the hand of Putin and the FSB is pretty clear in the Moscow bombings that kick started the Chechnyan war and rocketed Putins popularity, not to mention his grip on power (link here - ), so it could be argued that civil war in Iraq is exactly what Bush and his inner circle require.

    Sullivan says "My fear is that Bush has not thought this through".

    My fear is that Bush and his people have thought this through very carefully.
  7. Arch neocon John Bolton said yesterday that he doesnt give a stuff about civil war:,,176-2546055_1,00.html

    At least the barstewards have shown their true faces now, they dont give two hoots about Iraqi suffering.
  8. We're assuming all the other countries, especially middle eastern countries will "let" us pull out and not blame us at all for creating the conditions where this sectarian hatred could be acted upon. We didn't create the oppression, we didn't create the hatred, but we toppled Saddam and do you really think if we just b*ggered off everyone else would say "oh, well the war going on iraq now isn't really the fault of the US/UK because they're not there anymore".
    Also, much as I would like to see the UK less dependant on oil, we're at the stage where we're a net importer of oil and gas; with our demand still increasing and the North Sea running out. I'm sure we could cope, but we wouldn't want to. It would also make China quite miffed
  9. I think the key underlying principle of the whole article is that people other than us have the initiative. We therefore need to shift the paradigm away from what it is now in order to either regain the initiative or at least deny it to them.

    If we are not winning using current strategy, are we not simply re-enforcing failure by continuing? I am sure we are having some measure of success, but is it enough?

    Sullivan's point about re-assessing our use of oil is (in my mind) a bit of a red herring. After all, the USA are the ultimate capitalists, aren't they? If their model of capitalism is right for the planet, then the market will provide oil for all that can pay, right?