Civil Service Pay - Ex Military?

#1
A 'friend' of mine (ok it's me) has recently been offered a Civil Service post. In many respects it's my dream job (no really) and something I've wanted to do for years. Predictably though the pay isn't great although obviously my military pension will help.

I'd always thought that previous military service could be used to justify starting further up the pay scale for a given CS grade but the 'boarder' I'm dealing with has explained that this stopped in 2010. I'd be grateful if anyone with knowledge of the system could confirm whether this is an absolute position or whether exceptions have been made? If the latter, any supporting evidence would be extremely useful.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#2
No idea of the system but I'd still negotiate based on your existing salary. It's worked for me with NHS jobs and put me higher up increments.
 
#3
Civil service posts are graded by the 'rank' (grade) which then puts you onto the pay spine for that grade.

I doubt if there is any negotiation in terms of grade as it will be fixed against the job, but there may be some with the pay spine. I would ask whoever is doing the recruitment, although it all goes via what was PPPA, now DBS in bath.
 
#4
I worked in local government for 20 years although I left there 12 years ago. It's also not the civil service, it's the Council equivalent but they are comparable.

In my time there, I was appointed to several different jobs and it was always at the top of the scale. They were posts that I was asked to take on because of my expertise in those fields and it wasn't difficult to say I wanted to start at the top and get it.

To update myself on current practice, I gave my mate a ring who is still working for a local authority. It still happens but, you have to have justification for going up the scale rather than just starting at the bottom of it.

That can be experience, qualification or expertise in the field that you are going to work in. The problem is that managers are less open to persuasion because of budgetary constraints in the current political climate so you would need to show them why you should be appointed further up the scale or at the top of it.

I hope that's of some use to you for a civil service appointment.
 
#5
All recruitment in the Civil Service has stopped apart from specialist and managerial (SEO and above) grades, so at that level I think you should be able to negotiate your salary. Make sure you get a good severance clause as well, just in case you screw up and they have to dump you quietly.
 
#6
To my knowledge, movement within pay bands has been stopped for a few years now and nobody has been moving up increments within their grade. Part of this whole austerity business.

So negotiating starting higher up might be a hard sell, but probably prudent as increments are unlikely to be reinstated any time soon... (certainly not this year) Best person to talk to is DBS as mentioned above, though they've upped sticks and been crammed into the new Neighbourhood in Bristol now. They should know the policies under which your recruitment will have to be run.
 
#7
In my department (the Home Office), pay progression has now been capped at one spine point for all new entrants and all those who accept promotion. I still get three spine points per year because I joined before 01/04/12 and I have not accepted promotion.
 
#8
Thanks to all for your responses.

It is DBS who I'm currently dealing with so that bit is fine and they're currently offering me the lowest increment of the grade of the job for which I'm applying.

I was unaware that there is no automatic movement up to the next increment so that is very interesting news. Clearly therefore it makes it more important that I see if I can come in at the highest possible increment. Unfortunately this is exactly what DBS are claiming has been stopped so I need to do some further checking. I've had a message suggesting that I contact the HR policy phone number (0800 345 7772) which will be my next step.

Did I mention that all of a sudden I'm feeling much more sympathetic to my CS colleagues?
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#9
A lot of the public sector is the same or they've already been made redundant. I think it's obviously important to make a good deal now as you may well be stuck with that for a considerable time. You may need to provide evidence of it being lower pay, be amazingly charming and persistent.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#10
Did I mention that all of a sudden I'm feeling much more sympathetic to my CS colleagues?
Bloody civil serpents; what the he'll do they know about the military? :eye:
 
#11
Thanks to all for your responses.

It is DBS who I'm currently dealing with so that bit is fine and they're currently offering me the lowest increment of the grade of the job for which I'm applying.
Under current rules, and if you are applying for a 'generalist' post rather than 'specialist', they are absolutely correct. There is also nothing in the current PPPA guidance about any exceptions to this rule so I suspect it is fixed in stone. There are different rules, however, for specialist appointments such as MDP or teaching for example - it depends what you are applying for.

In terms of progression I believe movement up the existing pay scales is not affected.
 
#12
I believe that the MoD are the same as the HO and that movement up the payscale is capped at one spine point per year subject to receiving a satisfactory PDR.
 
#13
HM - you were correct, but a general progression freeze was put in three years ago, and no one has progressed at all on the pay spine since 2010.
 
#14
In my department (the Home Office), pay progression has now been capped at one spine point for all new entrants and all those who accept promotion. I still get three spine points per year because I joined before 01/04/12 and I have not accepted promotion.
So you're the moron I've dealt with at Lunar House the other day when I went for some work permit stuff....:)...j/k!
 
#16
Jim, I must have imagined my three spine point pay rise that I received (very late) in January then... Not being sarcastic, but that's what I got in my pay packet.
 
#17
Funnily enough last week i hated defence contractors and how little they know etc and thinking they know more than us. This week i think its the way forward and the military could learn a thing or to from them....MOD, what do they know?!!
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#18
Jim, I must have imagined my three spine point pay rise that I received (very late) in January then... Not being sarcastic, but that's what I got in my pay packet.
No, you didn't imagine it - nor did Jim miss any.

The MOD has had no incremental incerases for 3 years, as apparently none of us want or need them. All other Govt Depts have. It's really great to work here sometimes, and know how you are appreciated!

As for Bad CO's predicament - DBS are utterly, utterly useless. The person you will be dealing with is undoubtedly at E or maybe Band D level. Demand to speak to their Grade 7, and they will explode - they've probably never even seen such an august creature. Stand your ground - if you are being approached to occupy a specific post, with a specific skillset, then somebody wants you - and they do, within their 'Business Unit', have a lot of flexibility now as regards relocation expenses, travelling expenses, etc etc. In short - if they want you, they will pay. There are other ways than just monthly 'pay'...

Oh, I've extensive recent experience of being buggered about by the DBS, and know many others who have found that recruiting someone is a nightmare. They are understaffed, and that by people with no knowledge of anything other than a flowchart. If your problem/query isn't on that, they're fucked.
 

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