Civil Service after Army Career

Discussion in 'Jobs (Discussion)' started by jibblefit, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. I'm toying with the idea of entering the Civil Serive after my 28 years in green, does anybody know if working as a public servant will affect my military pension? I heard some years ago that if you go into the Civil Service they deduct a proproption of you military pension.
     
  2. I thought that they just paid you shit because you had a pension.
     
  3. Command_doh

    Command_doh LE Book Reviewer

    That was why so man joined. But it's been fucked over with big time, the contributions keep going up, there is no more lump sum and everyone appears to be on Annualised hours. We're on an effective 7 year pay freeze (cut if you include inflation).

    There has just been a hell of a lot of 'operational' Civil Service recruitment, so the OP might just have missed the boat a bit.

    As to the deduction, don't know about that. But by all accounts there are a fair few ex-military kicking about, so it can't be all bad.
     
  4. A soldier leaving the army and joining the Civil Service gets the same pay as any new entrant*
    It's low because it is low, the benefit of an ex-soldier with a pension is they have extra income. The only deduction there should be is higher income tax if you hit the threshold. The same situation of having any job whilst also having a pension.

    *The only difference being RO/MSF posts which are not standard Civil Service posts and have their own pay scales.

    Get yourself registered on:
    https://jobsstatic.civilservice.gov.uk/csjobs.html

    And get started on looking at recruitment criteria and the new Civil Service competences. In any application and interview you need to have situation examples to 'demonstrate your skills' in the advertised competences for the job.
    Find yourself examples you can summarise in an application and elaborate on in an interview.

    Consider the STAR format
    Brief background SITUATION
    The TASK
    Detail on the ACTIONS you did
    Summarise and assess the RESULT
    Most importantly make sure that the example you have can be detailed in all of the above with relevance to the competence requirements** - and shows you in a good light

    ** Look beyond the title of a competence, read the framework details. e.g. when it relates to teamwork you don't want to just say you work well with others, you need to show what you as an individual brought to the team, supported others etc

    As an ex soldier you still only qualify as an external applicant, therefore you can see the same jobs whether you are registered or not. If you were registered as an existing civil servant then you could see the internal jobs as well.

    Currently the MoD is still going through reductions for the target 25% cuts.
    One round of VERS has been completed - which contributed to an increase in external recruiting for 'business critical' or 'direct support to operations' which are effectively the only criteria that a vacancy can be externaly advertised if it has not been filled internally. For every new recruit the number of staff that has to be cut goes up one.

    The second round of VERS is currently underway, there should be no new surge of external recruiting but if a post becomes vacant and is essential but does not get filled internally then it will make external recruiting.

    The DIO stopped all VERS panels as they are in the restructuring process between informal and formal notices. Once the appeals process has been completed then the recruiting goes ahead, if the posts don't get filled internally then there will be external vacancies. There is the potential for this as there is a lot of relocation in the new DIO structure, and after the first VERS round there are a lot less existing DIO staff.

    In the original round DIO let virtually every applicant go, this caused problems and in my area during our restructuring we ended up with one site with 15 out of 16 driver posts vacant because of VERS combined with restructuring. Some were filled internally, most externally - of which around half were ex services.


    New competences
    http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/improving/psg
    http://resources.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Civil-Service-Competency-Framework-Feb2013.pdf

    Current adverts will probably still have the existing core competences.
    Also look out for specialist competences, if in doubt contact the advertiser for more information.
     
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  5. Bad CO

    Bad CO LE Admin Reviews Editor Gallery Guru

    I'm currently going through the process of applying for a CS post and despite working closely with them in the past have found it a bit of an eye opener. I'd echo the point about really understanding core competencies. A few things I've found:

    1. Apply for jobs you're not interested in as you end up getting good feedback on your application form. It also allows you to get any mandatory online assessments completed. This is useful as you only get one shot per job you're applying for but are valid for six months.

    2. Use the CTP as a sounding board to read your application form. I got some awesome feedback from my advisor.

    Good luck!




    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. My missus is CS, working at Army HQ. She is interested in applying for a new post, as her current role is "lifed" and due to end next year.
    Yesterday, she came back home with a copy of the new competencies, which I notice have increased to a total of 10, and if I am not mistaken, have all been renamed/revamped/whatever. A couple of pearlers which leap out of the page are "Seeing the Big Picture" and "Delivering at Pace".
    As ex military, familiar with the ever-changing delights of the PADR and bonus system, I have to ask: "Who makes this shite up"?! :)
     
  7. Poor pay, good pension.
    Industrial Grades are paid different to Admin grades.
    Once in internal jobs are around to change & get promotion.
    Most ask for Security Clearance.
     
  8. This is sound advice. If the post you are applying for has online testing, you only get one crack at this part, no re-tests. So it's worth applying for roles you don't want, in order to successfully complete the online test.
    For example, The role I wanted was C2 and had an online test as a requirement. But, had I failed the test, I could not have applied for the role I wanted. So I searched for other C2 roles and applied for them, completed the test which, as Good Co says, is valid for 6 months. Don't forget to let the roles you didn't want know you no longer need that job though, gets embarressing when they ring up and offer you an interview (ask me how I know)

    Poor pay (IMHO - a C2 gets £29Kpa) and the pension is a standard contribution pension now, the days of index-linked final-salary pension are long gone.
    Not sure about the differeance between industrial & admin, never heard that before.
    Any application for a promotion (even if you are an internal cndidate) will still require you to complete any pre-requestits, and you also have t wait in line for the RDP and others to cherry pick the best roles.
    The CS will carry out you SC for you, there is no cost to a candidate but it takes a couple of weeks.

    I was CS for five years after leaving the REME & I hated it. It was shit. The only benefit was the flexi time. I also manage to make the full bonus four years without hardly trying, any even remotely ambitious ex-squaddie will shine in the CS. The non-military will take liberties with you, a you will want to get stuff done, they will happily leave you to it. I would also feel endless fustrations with collegues who would spend the bulk of their day drinking Costa before telling you how busy they were. VERS stripped out the people who worked there who could survive in civvy strasse and left all the dross behind, but on the plus side, shining out as an outstanding candiate won't be hard.

    Don't forget that the SA80A1 was refered to as the Civil Servant, because it didn't work & it couldn't be fired...
     
  9. As a career Snivel Serpent, and long term STAB, I see it from the other side. Yes the pay is pretty poor compared to, say, merchant banking, but the job security is good, if not quite so ironclad as it was.

    One thing the military mind won't have encountered is the Trade Union mindset. If you are going to meet these you are in for a shock-apart from the London Tube drivers, its one of the last havens of the Fred Kite Stalinist crossed with the remains of the Militant Tendency. Refrain from stabbing them for stupidity. It's frowned upon.

    The CS is trying to reform itself, or have reform forced upon it, but its not PLANNED reform. It's basically budget driven, along the lines of 'Here's the cash-Build a CS within that'. The upshot is some pretty random decision making and knee-jerk reaction to whatever the hot issue of the day is. It's not quite the policy of the day depends on the last Daily Mail editorial, but there's a lot of tactical firefighting and not much strategy.

    From the ex-Tom point of view, there's a lot of Executive Agencies and delivery organisations that get out and about and do fun stuff, but they are under the cost-cosh as well. Possibly best, if you can, is to get into a liaison job with lots of cross-cutting and stakeholder involvement-where there's public interest, and shared budgets, there's less chance of getting suddenly disbanded and chucked into the spare parts bin in HR.

    Warning-If you have more than a few years of CS on your CV, it like struggling out of a tar pit. Most private sector companies don't like the ex CS. They think we're all tea drinking, jobsworth militants. It's a terrible stereotype. I drink coffee.
     
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  10. Having scanned the other replies, I do not think anyone has actually answered your question. On leaving the Army, your pension plus your CS salary must come to a total which cannot be more than your previous Army salary. If it does, your pension takes a hit. However, you are allowed to add CPI to your notional Army salary each year which would allow you to increase your total (pension+CS wage) each year.
     
  11. Bad CO

    Bad CO LE Admin Reviews Editor Gallery Guru

    I don't think that is the case anymore as the RO posts have gone. My understanding is that your military pension and CS salary are not linked in anyway. Well other than the obvious one that they both arrive in your bank account!



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  12. I will do some digging on Mon when I am back at work. I am in a CS post and the total of my CS salary and pension is just short of my previous Army salary - so not an issue for me at this stage. But, I do have some ambitions and am interested in trying for a more senior CS post. It would be good to know what the rules are. The statement in my previous post, was what I was briefed when I took up the post, but I have not seen the statement written down.
     
  13. It will drive you mental with the procedures and built in trade union jobs worth way of thinking. My first experience was working with them at Larkhill while still in, couldn't get my head round it, 3 trips before Whitley Council!! Waste of space.
    Once I left, every time I had to deal with local government or civil service departments to get something or get something done, it was like swimming up a waterfall REALLY hard work.
    If you want to get on in life stay away from them, if you do join you will find frustration and sheer blood boredom.

    But good luck if that's what you want.
     
  14. I retired from the civil service after 22 years, mainly working with the RN. Ex navy were usually taken on after their 22 years and got on ok. They'd make any shortage of pay up with their pensions and also did any overtime going.