Civil Servants

#1
Are civil servants entitled to the same discounts as service men and woman? I realise there are defence discounts now, but are there any discounts left purely for the armed forces. Also are civil servants entitled to some form of MOD 90?
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#2
MoD civ serps carry an MoD ID photocard from Day1, have done since 1980. Still takes an age to get in some locations.

If you are attached to a deployment such as Herrick/Telic etc in an official capacity you are issued with an additional ID card,similar to the MoD 90.

MoD 90s are not issued to MoD civ serps unless they are also TA etc.

I left in 2012 but back then there was an Armed Forces Discount scheme which included MoD civ serps. It does not apply to ex CS, to my knowledge.
 
#3
Thanks. It grieves me that a snivelling serpent thinks they are entitled to the same as members of the armed forces. I have worked with them and they have said they are getting equivalent to MOD 90s. They take military packages, although they are far from military. I wonder what benefits we get from them? And yet they sponge off the fact they are in support of HMF, even going so far as to claim equivalent rank!! None of us claim equivalent grade!!
 
#4
Thanks. It grieves me that a snivelling serpent thinks they are entitled to the same as members of the armed forces. I have worked with them and they have said they are getting equivalent to MOD 90s. They take military packages, although they are far from military. I wonder what benefits we get from them? And yet they sponge off the fact they are in support of HMF, even going so far as to claim equivalent rank!! None of us claim equivalent grade!!
Do not be too quick to slag off all CS, a lot are ex HMAF, some are in the reserves and a lot have done a lot of time in quite lowly paid jobs which in some cases cannot be done by HMAF because of lack of skill set/service manning.
some have deployed on op tours in support of HMAF and i can recall at least 2 that died on tour.
 
#6
Fair point. Those in HMF or ex HMF stand out a mile though
I will be the first to admit that there are far too many that seem to forget the reason for being is to support HMAF, that said its hard to generate team spirt and commitment when jobs are outsourced to crap companies who see the MOD as a cash cow, and staff T&Cs are ripped up/off
 
#8
MoD civ serps carry an MoD ID photocard from Day1, have done since 1980. Still takes an age to get in some locations.

If you are attached to a deployment such as Herrick/Telic etc in an official capacity you are issued with an additional ID card,similar to the MoD 90.

MoD 90s are not issued to MoD civ serps unless they are also TA etc.

I left in 2012 but back then there was an Armed Forces Discount scheme which included MoD civ serps. It does not apply to ex CS, to my knowledge.
Not quite accurate, I'm aware of CS in Scotland who, in some cases, have been waiting for 20 yrs for a photo ID card. In my last unit (a TA Med Regt) the NRPS RAO & RAWO flatly refused to arrange for one for any of their CS.
 
#9
Again, agreed. It is hard for young service personnel to have an ill qualified person telling them they are equivalent to an officer too
Tough, some of them have the equivalancy of commissioned officers whether you like it or not.

Just like those in HMF, CS come in good or bad and in my 30+ yrs in HMF (now past tense) I've met plenty of each sort in both worlds. I would say though that it seems easier to sack someone in HMF than a CS.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#10
Not quite accurate, I'm aware of CS in Scotland who, in some cases, have been waiting for 20 yrs for a photo ID card. In my last unit (a TA Med Regt) the NRPS RAO & RAWO flatly refused to arrange for one for any of their CS.
Okay D n' D - my experience was based on working in Central London. I remember well when we transitioned from a simple laminated card with a pawnbrokers symbol on it to a photo ID - I think it was in shortly after I joined , so around 1981. Maybe in a TA Med rgt your AO permanent staff has indeed been waiting 20 years for an ID card. He/she probably doesn't have to visit other establishments that much? So a local anomaly, which the old HQ Sy1 team would be all over like a rash.

As other posters have said above, a lot of MoD CS are either ex-services ( RO1's and RO2's in old money) or serving Reservists, as I was for 17 of the 32 years I was CS.

The ''Equivalent rank' thing is just a courtesy. It means that the Grade 5 (B1) responsible for answering to Ministers for the actions of the Director of the Army Estate Organisation - a 1 star - can have a chat with him in the Mess over a bite to eat, if need be, before composing the latest cop-out for Main Bldg.

( Mess membership is open to MoD CS above EO, not compulsory.)

The idea that a newly joined AO has the same knowledge and experience as a senior WO2 is , of course, cobblers.

(On the other hand, a lot of SNCO's have no idea how to deal with their non-service counterparts. There used to be a one day course on it !)


Nice rant - we there yet? :p
 
#11
Okay D n' D - my experience was based on working in Central London. I remember well when we transitioned from a simple laminated card with a pawnbrokers symbol on it to a photo ID - I think it was in shortly after I joined , so around 1981. Maybe in a TA Med rgt your AO permanent staff has indeed been waiting 20 years for an ID card. He/she probably doesn't have to visit other establishments that much? So a local anomaly, which the old HQ Sy1 team would be all over like a rash.

As other posters have said above, a lot of MoD CS are either ex-services ( RO1's and RO2's in old money) or serving Reservists, as I was for 17 of the 32 years I was CS.

The ''Equivalent rank' thing is just a courtesy. It means that the Grade 5 (B1) responsible for answering to Ministers for the actions of the Director of the Army Estate Organisation - a 1 star - can have a chat with him in the Mess over a bite to eat, if need be, before composing the latest cop-out for Main Bldg.

( Mess membership is open to MoD CS above EO, not compulsory.)

The idea that a newly joined AO has the same knowledge and experience as a senior WO2 is , of course, cobblers.

(On the other hand, a lot of SNCO's have no idea how to deal with their non-service counterparts. There used to be a one day course on it !)


Nice rant - we there yet? :p
Agree entirely. The civvy fitter though has to regularly visit RM Condor, Leuchars and Stirling, all of which require ID cards to be shown or you have to book in and your place of visit contacted to check you are expected. The rest of the AO's and the other industrial rarely need to get out and about. He is the only ex-mil CS on camp.
 
#12
Again, agreed. It is hard for young service personnel to have an ill qualified person telling them they are equivalent to an officer too
Why? Those of us who've served in the Royal Signals have been putting up with it for years!
 
#13
@sprogmeister
What is your problem with Civil Servants?
That they can get the discount service personnel are ‘entitled’ to?
There’s no discount that anyone’s entitled to. Companies offer discounts to pretty much anyone they want to, and usually as part of a wider scheme like the Defence Discount Scheme which is the Blue Light Scheme (police, fire, nhs, Defence) with a different logo and gives the same discount as any other corporate scheme - and if costs the shop money to be part of the scheme, it’s a form of advertising to be part of a scheme
Some give their own discounts to anyone they want and may or may not include the services
Some give forces discount if you show a mod 90


Are civil servants entitled to some form of mod 90?
You do realize that it is an identity card not a discount card????
So yes they are ‘entitled’ to an ID card which is not a mod 90, but some do get a mod90 - most civil servants are not allowed to go to work without their mod ID


Equivalent rank is only a level in a hierachal system. It gives my level of authority in my role, it doesn’t give me special powers, it does say if i can join or eat in a mess and where i can stay when visiting sites
It also means I can pay into mess funds with a subscription, be a mess committee member and be responsible for an area, (as a minimum save someone else from being dicked to do it) and give my time doing things for the mess members

It also means that quite a few ex HMF who got in as Civil Servants did so during a recruiting ban because I did the work to get authority to recruit and interviewed them. They got the jobs not because they were ex HMF, especially as most stated in interview that they didn’t want that job, just a foot in the door to move on, but because they had the skills & qualifications I needed

Some Civil Servants want to do things that benefit the forces, and get lower pay as thanks

You appear to know someone who is a cock, there are cocks in the forces, civil Service and elsewhere
 
#14
Tommika,

I entirely agree with your final statement.

I was merely trying to understand is all. When I have a 20 something civil servant telling me they are equivalent to a Major, but lack the qualifications or experience to be, I find it galling. I accept the messing point but so not understand the seeing of equivalency and wanted to educate myself.

I have never seen the MOD 90 as a discount card but am grateful for discounts offered to us for being members of HMF because of what we do. I was unaware of it being extended to those who are not members of HMF and carry out an entirely different role.
 
#15
Tommika,

I entirely agree with your final statement.

I was merely trying to understand is all. When I have a 20 something civil servant telling me they are equivalent to a Major, but lack the qualifications or experience to be, I find it galling. I accept the messing point but so not understand the seeing of equivalency and wanted to educate myself.

I have never seen the MOD 90 as a discount card but am grateful for discounts offered to us for being members of HMF because of what we do. I was unaware of it being extended to those who are not members of HMF and carry out an entirely different role.

Short answer as I am off a plane and jetlagged to buggery.

Man up you whinging mangina. Its utterly tedious to listen to whinging moaners with chips on their shoulder bleat endlessly about how a civilian organisation is bad simply because they've made no effort to understand it.

The subject has been done to death on arrse and its always the same. Fundamentally you come across as the individual who is the problem here, not the poor CS who have to suffer your stroppiness.

Grow up, stop dripping like a septic tank and learn some basic professionalism to work with your CS peers rather than drip endlessly about them.
 
#16
Also, no MOD CS dont get a MOD90. They get a site pass to access their workplace. Thats very different from a mod90.

It is possible for very specific posts, for very time limited periods to acquire a MOD90 like card. These are not MOD90s and I can attest are not treated as such.

MOD staff do not qualify for defence discounts unless the firm chooses to offer them to civil servants (relatively common). To my knowledge, MOD CS dont qualify for defence discount scheme unless they gave prior military service.
 
#18
Whilst on the subject of the CS, what sort of being might someone described as a "Grade 6" be in context of a non MOD Government department these days, allegedly sitting remote but atop yet another IT procurement fiasco?
 
#19
Whilst on the subject of the CS, what sort of being might someone described as a "Grade 6" be in context of a non MOD Government department these days, allegedly sitting remote but atop yet another IT procurement fiasco?
Grade 6 is seniorish type - its a grade that has no mil equivalent, with G7 being OF5 level, and Grade 5 being 1*.
 
#20
....

MOD staff do not qualify for defence discounts unless the firm chooses to offer them to civil servants (relatively common). To my knowledge, MOD CS dont qualify for defence discount scheme unless they gave prior military service.
Not necessarily qualified under any other schemes, but when it went to the 'official' DDS spin off from Blue Light any MoD Civil Servant was included (though for most you need the discount card which has to be paid for)

Defence Discount Service
 Serving Armed Forces
 Reserve Forces
 Spouses/Partners of serving personnel
 HM Armed Forces Veterans (ex serving)
 MoD Civil Servants
 Bereaved Family Members
 War/Service Widow(er)s
 Cadet Forces (over 16)
 NATO Personnel in the UK
 

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