Civil Serpents Complaint against procedure,

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Davetheclown

Guest
#1
Hi work in a partnership office lots of civil serpents in there, they sort of are in CoC, SO1 and SO2 level. How do you formally complain about one? They seem to think they can muck about the serving lads in the office. One in particular is a outright prick, fed up with speaking to his line manager and CS closing ranks.

I want him gone basically, personally love to drop him, they have no problem complaining about the lads to the boss. The boss says they are untouchable.

Is there anyway I can formally complain?
 
#2
Hi work in a partnership office lots of civil serpents in there, they sort of are in CoC, SO1 and SO2 level. How do you formally complain about one? They seem to think they can muck about the serving lads in the office. One in particular is a outright prick, fed up with speaking to his line manager and CS closing ranks.

I want him gone basically, personally love to drop him, they have no problem complaining about the lads to the boss. The boss says they are untouchable.

Is there anyway I can formally complain?
Put it writing to his line manager, copy in the line managers, manager. If you know any of the union reps speak to them they will be more than happy to give you guidance on how to stitch him up.
 
#3
Or you could just punch him very hard in the face?
 
#4
Harassment is potentially a serious disciplinary offence. Creatures like this should have their behaviour challenged promptly and they are certainly not untouchable. JSP763 is the bible to follow here. It's on the Gov website - just Google it.

If the line managers don't deal with a complaint promptly and properly, there are further steps that you can take. There should be an Equality & Diversity Adviser in your organisation somewhere who will give you impartial advice. There's also a confidential help line for service personnel: 0800 731 4880.
 
#5
Roughly from what you say this looks like bullying or harrasment. In which case JSP 763 covers it. If it is another form of complaint then it may be a grievance.
Grievance processes differ by department. For the MoD start with the People Services website and search 'grievance'
(From the Defence intranet hompepage choose Personnel then Civilian)

You've done the start by speaking to the line manager, either go directly to a formal complaint and state you have already spoken, or start off a written complaint 'informally'.
Make this the last chance for the LM, if not acted upon in the appropriate timeframe then go straight up the chain.

Alternately raise it to the LMs LM if you are unhappy from previous attempts.


Note - On the 'Desired outcome' don't put it that you want him gone, if it's bad enough then he should be sacked. The old method of moving people on 'should' be all over - all it did was push the problem somewhere else.
Say something such as rectifiying the issue and ending bullying / harrasment. Let the investigators decide what should be done. If it stops for a while and starts again then raise again, referring to the history and let things mount up.
The CS involved (individual & LM) must take it seriously and stop, at those grades they should know better. If they can't stop then they need to go, and the same as service redundancies - we would rather keep the good soldiers and good civil servants in and lose the bad ones, if its bad enough then sacking a bully is better then paying a good employee to leave.
 
D

Davetheclown

Guest
#6
Cheers guys some good advice and followed it up with that JSP mentioned, by tomorrow someones intray is going to be full. Union reps were surprisingly helpful, think they were expecting it. From the service point of view its relatively easy to sort out, but CS are a unknown species.

Ethel, cracking idea, but I dont own a pair of boxing gloves ;-)

DTC
 
#8
What grade is the civil servant in question? EO and above can only be complained about through grievance processes or disciplined by an equivalent rank.

So you'll need a Captain on your side as a minimum
 
#9
Why not keep an eye on where they hide their passwords, slack ******* all of them, then try downloading shit loads of dodgy porn onto their DII UADs and send a risque insulting homophobic emails to excitable members of staff?
 
D

Davetheclown

Guest
#10
Why not keep an eye on where they hide their passwords, slack ******* all of them, then try downloading shit loads of dodgy porn onto their DII UADs and send a risque insulting homophobic emails to excitable members of staff?
thought of that, however computer misuse act has no sense of humour, also in my building the fekkers log in with a time clock machine, so proving it was them.

However at a previous place, friday free ads was a god send, the guy had to change his telephone number after a week of people asking for his sofa, fridge, donkey, sexual intercourse, breeding ferrets and his requests for astral projection therapy.
 
#11
thought of that, however computer misuse act has no sense of humour, also in my building the fekkers log in with a time clock machine, so proving it was them.
You can be logged onto two UADs at the same time using the password......think about the implications of that!
 
#12
#14

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#15
Perhaps not referring to them as civil serpents might help your case as well
 
#17
Its so hard to do someone over for harassment, its all so subjective

now, reporting someone for telling a racially offensive joke/making a religiously motivated comment against muslims - thats going to **** them up!

especially since you can report it in an email under the 'I was a bit concerned about some comments made in the office the other day and don't know if I should report them" that means anyone and everyone who touches it passes it on to HR like a hot potato.
 
#18
Okay, some serious advice time.

Firstly, if you have a genuine grievance, then follow Guns advice and stop saying 'civil serpent' - it makes you come across as having a chip on your shoulder. Secondly, don't even joke about lamping in the face, downloading Porn etc. If you want to make an allegation against someone that may be career ending for them, then start acting with the maturity and seriousness that such an allegation should warrant.

In the first instance, start documenting a log of all incidents, including time, date, who witnessed it and so on. Make sure you have witnesses where possible, and be absolutely watertight in what you are saying. The investigations process in the CS relies on evidence, and the more you have, the easier it is to corroborate it.

Secondly, if your team are thinking about wind ups or getting your own back then STOP NOW. Not only will it weaken your case, but in the worst case scenario it could backfire and the CS in question could well have a very strong case against you, with the tables being turned. Accept that to see this through means doing the process properly.

Finally, think very carefully about whether you think this is a serious enough situation to warrant investigation or whether it can be solved at a lower level. I would always strongly encourage people to pursue a legitimate grievance, but I would be asking what steps had been taken to resolve this informally before making it a formal matter - this is because formal matters take a long time to resolve, and its often found that they could have been nipped in the bud far earlier.

So, my very strong advice is to come up with an objective list of reasons and issues against an individual and why you think they are unacceptable conduct. I would then list what resolution you would lik to see - not just 'lamp the twat', but a 'I would like Mr Bloggs to stop doing XYZ'. Present this into the CoC, and let them try to resolve informally. If Mr Bloggs continues after this event, and your guys have done nothing to incite him, then it can be taken further into the formal chain where there are extremely serious outcomes.

Think of it as an informal being a quiet chat by the RSM behind the sheds, while a formal is a serious AGAI / Courts Martial investigation with all the challenge this involves.

If you genuinely want help, and not just to stitch someone up because you dont like them, then PM me and I would be happy to help you get the ball rolling.
 
#19
Okay, some serious advice time.

Firstly, if you have a genuine grievance, then follow Guns advice and stop saying 'civil serpent' - it makes you come across as having a chip on your shoulder. Secondly, don't even joke about lamping in the face, downloading Porn etc. If you want to make an allegation against someone that may be career ending for them, then start acting with the maturity and seriousness that such an allegation should warrant.
If the person gets the sack, you should dress in hair shirt, give up alcohol for a month and wear Mourning Underpants for the next six months to mark the passing of his career.

Oh, the humanity!
 
#20
If the person gets the sack, you should dress in hair shirt, give up alcohol for a month and wear Mourning Underpants for the next six months to mark the passing of his career.

Oh, the humanity!
I've invoked disciplinary action against both the military and civil servants: Jim's advice is pretty sound.

If you are going to push this then you need to follow the procedure if you're going to have a snowball's of getting a result. Screw around and it will go wrong. Knowing the rules - and sticking to them - is "good". When I had to deal with military misbehaviour (on one occasion with a pretty impressive set of offences within 48 hours of arrival) I was very glad to have a couple of SO2s who'd just done tours as adjts to lean on.
 

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