Civies on Ops...

#1
A little Int required...

My wife works for the Danish MOD as a bookkeeper and they've just pointed out that her contract says she's bound to do whatever they tell her to.... tough. So their plan is to send her to Afgahnistan for a few months. NIGHTMARE! Sod the danger... our poor daughter will have her nappies on backwards and have to eat spagetti and ketchup for the best part of a season! And I'll be housebound and won't be able to my job as the DMoD also think it's fun to send me places at 24 minutes notice (you may have noticed that the engraving shop shuts suddenly now and again).

We probably wouldn't be so taken aback by this if it were the other way around. I've been a soldier and mil related all my life. But she thought she was a secretary on a secretaries wage whose raison d'etre was to smile and be nice to anxious men in green.

So here's the question . Do the UK/US/CAN forces send civies out? Do they train them? (you'll love this - she won't be base bound and gets a one week course and a pistol!) Do they get extra cash? How much?

Just interested. If their demands are unfair, we'd like to tell them and base it on comparative reason... and pehaps negotiate a better deal for her and the other lambs who have suddenly been put in this position.

Heartfelt cheers for any help or comments you can give us on this one.
 
#3
Canadian civilians do deploy, but it is by choice. We have the diplomats and politicians from Department of Foreign Affaires and International Trade, but that is pretty normal. There are also civilian DND (MoD) employees who go over to run canteens/CANEX (NAAFI) reps/sports instructors/hairdressers/etc. Dont recall any of them being armed though, but they do get some predeployement training.
Here's a link to the Personnel Support Programme employees contract when they go over to Afghanistan http://www.cfpsa.com/en/deployed/pdfs/annexBappendix2_e.pdf
These are the canteen/sports/hairdresser types. These people are strictly speaking not public servents, but non-public fund employees, but never mind the difference. I believe a public servent deploying would receive Foreign Service Premium, Hazard Allownance, Hardship Allowance, etc just as a soldier working in the same spot.
 
#4
Spiffy said:
Bloody hell mate, thats a bit rough on your daughter.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: You have no bloody idea mate. Tell me... how much can anappy hold before it has to be changed?

Canuck said:
Canadian civilians do deploy, but it is by choice. We have the diplomats and politicians from Department of Foreign Affaires and International Trade, but that is pretty normal. There are also civilian DND (MoD) employees who go over to run canteens/CANEX (NAAFI) reps/sports instructors/hairdressers/etc. Dont recall any of them being armed though, but they do get some predeployement training.
Here's a link to the Personnel Support Programme employees contract when they go over to Afghanistan http://www.cfpsa.com/en/deployed/pdfs/annexBappendix2_e.pdf
These are the canteen/sports/hairdresser types. These people are strictly speaking not public servents, but non-public fund employees, but never mind the difference. I believe a public servent deploying would receive Foreign Service Premium, Hazard Allownance, Hardship Allowance, etc just as a soldier working in the same spot.
Cheers Canuck... good skills... anyone got any idea how much the allowances are. I mean there's got to be a good reason for volunteering to sit in a cave.
 
#5
Hardship is $680 per month, risk is $544 per month, foreign service premium is $648 per month, going up in increments the longer you're over. There is a hardship bonus which you start to recieve on your second consecutive tour where you draw hardship.

Oh, and the allowances are tax free.

Edit- Thats the risk and hardship for Afghan...there are different levels depending on the mission location.
 
#6
At the risk of appearing trite, if the UK MOD civilian staff were deployable wouldn't it nearly double the size of our armed forces?
A nice idea for recruitment....
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
My apologies, I saw the title and I thought it was the RAF web site.
 
#8
EX_STAB said:
At the risk of appearing trite, if the UK MOD civilian staff were deployable wouldn't it nearly double the size of our armed forces?
A nice idea for recruitment....
Yeah... and what? Halve the effectiveness?? :) and treble the weight?

Thanks Canuck... that I can use

Come on Brits... let's play spot the civie... are there any out there at all??
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
BaldricksBullet said:
EX_STAB said:
At the risk of appearing trite, if the UK MOD civilian staff were deployable wouldn't it nearly double the size of our armed forces?
A nice idea for recruitment....
Yeah... and what? Halve the effectiveness?? :) and treble the weight?

Thanks Canuck... that I can use

Come on Brits... let's play spot the civie... are there any out there at all??[/quote]

Here's one

http://freespace.virgin.net/chav.scum/images/skwiggypop.jpg
 

B_AND_T

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
BaldricksBullet said:
Is that Scots Reg desert cam??? I think you found a piper... not a civie
You don't know how close you are. Have you been to Fally recently.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#12
B_AND_T said:
BaldricksBullet said:
EX_STAB said:
At the risk of appearing trite, if the UK MOD civilian staff were deployable wouldn't it nearly double the size of our armed forces?
A nice idea for recruitment....
Yeah... and what? Halve the effectiveness?? :) and treble the weight?

Thanks Canuck... that I can use

Come on Brits... let's play spot the civie... are there any out there at all??[/quote]


OK, waited long enough... I've done 2 TELICs - one as a Soldier, one as a MoD Civvy - and the second tour was far more dodgy than the first! There are well over a hundred MoD slackarse penpushers in Iraq at any one time, and a fair few in Afghanistan and all other Theatres. All are volunteers, and many have done more than one Tour - one was even recently awarded the QCVS. Without them Ops would be a lot more difficult, as there are many, many roles that cannot be carried out by Military, for one reason or another (and not lack of money, either). There are also Civvies working in Iraq and Afghanistan from almost every Nation that has people serving.

But of course, if any of you gobshites had actually been on Ops recently, you'd know this. Anyone who has been on an Op Base which has UK Forces in it will have seen MoD Civvies serving there.
 
#13
Old Snowy, genuine question, if you go as an MoD civvy and you haven't been before do you qualify for a Telic medal? Not that I'm an MoD civvy or anything, just wondering.
 
#16
UK MOD article: Civilians to the front line

"In a way we're victims of our own success. Now a deployed HQ would expect to have a political advisor (Polad), a civil secretary and a team of finance, commercial and claims staff to support him or her, a scientific adviser an operational analyst, a media adviser and an intelligence analyst. Add in MOD police and the Defence Fire and Rescue Service as well as ad hoc individual requirements, and you quickly have a need to deploy over 300 people a year. That has produced a skills shortage in some key areas."
In addition, there are plenty of civilians that go on short term visits, especially DPA, DLO and Dstl types (procurement, equipment support and research).
 
#17
Standby for flabaghastness.
After 24 years in the Army and now a septic serviant I volunteered for Iraq or Afghanistan. (It does not bother me. Special Comms and C2W/Info Warfare/Ops background)
At interview I was told my attitude was a trite to aggressive and militaristic.

Deployment refused for the time being
 
#18
hairyhandbag said:
Standby for flabaghastness.
After 24 years in the Army and now a septic serviant I volunteered for Iraq or Afghanistan. (It does not bother me. Special Comms and C2W/Info Warfare/Ops background)
At interview I was told my attitude was a trite to aggressive and militaristic.

Deployment refused for the time being
my flabber is well and truly ghasted :yawnstretch:
 
#19
hairyhandbag said:
Standby for flabaghastness.
After 24 years in the Army and now a septic serviant I volunteered for Iraq or Afghanistan. (It does not bother me. Special Comms and C2W/Info Warfare/Ops background)
At interview I was told my attitude was a trite to aggressive and militaristic.

Deployment refused for the time being
Not good at all! A civil service interview follows a strict 'competence based' selection process. In plain English, you either demonstrate that you meet the standard required or you don't. Aggressive and militaristic attitudes have b*gger all to do with it.

Grounds for an appeal methinks.
 
#20
I worked with a load of civvies on Ops and they'd all fought like hell to be allowed to go - prime reason being that their overtime & allowances improved their sh!te UK pay to such an extent that they all bought houses on returning from tours.

I also had sight of the pre-deployment training for many of them & it was always complete comedy to watch the reaction of the Civvies & the (generally very) warry instructors to each other. Thankfully we were spared too much of the "well I'm actually a Brigadier" nonsense.

Say what you will about MoD Civilian Staff, those who go on Ops work damned hard for their corn & deserve the (often large) row of medals they've earnt (but will sadly never get a chance to wear).
 

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