Citizens or Subjects?

Are you a Citizen or a Subject?

  • Citizen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Subject

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
Just been thinking, the royal vs republican thread...

Do you consider yourself a citizen of Great Britain or a subject of Her Majesty?
 
#2
Both, surely they go hand in hand
 
#3
MSI64 said:
Both, surely they go hand in hand
Agree. A good thing about the UK is that you can still (just) say that both can co-exist.
 
#4
By definition it's a non question because we are indeed citizens and subjects.

citizen = a member of a city, state, country or nation

subject = one who is under the power of another

I know what you are getting at though and in answer "I belong to HM"
 
#5
I always thought that if one's a citizen,one has the responsibility to defend the state,and if one is a subject,the state has a responsibility to defend one.

I'd say we were a bit of both,I think your passport should shed some light on this (bound to be in the wording on the second or so page?)
 
#6
I just wondered on opinions, I had this argument with friends...as a monarchist I insisted on being a subject rather than a citizen, my liberal lefty friend insisted on being a citizen.

Of course, on a practical level both overlap, but I am more curious as to see in what category one may identify with.

Apologies for not making it clear :)
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
I identify with both, as is my loyalty. Democracy as it stands however is a different story. If called to service by HM, I'd go, but our elected politicians have only my contempt and if they called me to service, I'd probably tell them where to shove it, albeit, HM would call me on their behalf . . . catch 22.
 
#9
Biped

I am in total agreement there. If a politician ask me to spare some urine to help him douse the flames creeping up their legs I'd feign deafness, but if HM ordered me to do it.................. I'd probably have to go sick and get an excused p155ing on an MP chit for the day!
 
#11
MSI64 said:
Both, surely they go hand in hand
I have to agree with MS164 - but I would priorotize it this way: I am a subject to Her Majesty before being a citizen to the state. In other words the Monarch takes higher priority to the Government -and rightly so! :queen: :) :)
 
#12
I think you all need to go and look at the definition of a British Citizen and a British Subject as none of you seem to understand the proper meaning at the moment. It has noting to do with being a lefty or monarchist.

I have always been a Monarchist, but I was born in The Republic Of Ireland before 1959 so therfore was a British Subject and a Citizen of the Republic of Ireland, and therefore entitled to a British Subjects UK Passport which was the only Passport I had virtually throughout my 34 year career in Her Majestys Armed Services. That was until the MOD advised me that to have a British Subjects Passport could cause me a problem if I was in transit and came down in certain countries ( even theough I was on duty inthe RN). Plus the automatic visa waiver to the US and other Countries did not apply to British Citizens.
So I applied for an Irish Passport as a Citizen of the Rep of Ireland. At the same time I took out Citizenship of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland under the lenght of time at a UK address and the right to live in UK rule and changed my UK Passport to a British Citizens Passport. I keep both up to date as I now have dual Citizenship.

A British Subject is not entitled to the same full privilidges of a British Citzen and the Terms are not aligned to Republicanism or the Monarchy.

I havent voted in the poll as it is meaningless.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
HydraJoe said:
I think you all need to go and look at the definition of a British Citizen and a British Subject as none of you seem to understand the proper meaning at the moment. It has noting to do with being a lefty or monarchist.

I have always been a Monarchist, but I was born in The Republic Of Ireland before 1959 so therfore was a British Subject and a Citizen of the Republic of Ireland, and therefore entitled to a British Subjects UK Passport which was the only Passport I had virtually throughout my 34 year career in Her Majestys Armed Services. That was until the MOD advised me that to have a British Subjects Passport could cause me a problem if I was in transit and came down in certain countries ( even theough I was on duty inthe RN). Plus the automatic visa waiver to the US and other Countries did not apply to British Citizens.
So I applied for an Irish Passport as a Citizen of the Rep of Ireland. At the same time I took out Citizenship of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland under the lenght of time at a UK address and the right to live in UK rule and changed my UK Passport to a British Citizens Passport. I keep both up to date as I now have dual Citizenship.

A British Subject is not entitled to the same full privilidges of a British Citzen and the Terms are not aligned to Republicanism or the Monarchy.
You wot? That's a new one; I wasn't aware that there was a seperation between British Subject and British Citizen in terms of nationality; but then, if this is true, you learn something new every day?!?!

So let me get this straight: As a British Subject, you couldn't get as many perks as you would if you were a British Citizen? If this is the case, whether we had it right in the first place or not, the same applies. As subjects of the monarchy, we are bound to be treated with less contempt than if we were merely citizens of Bliar's or Broon's bullsh!t d!cktatership. :roll:
 
#14
Hydra Joe is totally right.

I had always been a bit sniffy about being described as a citizen rather than a subject, but while going through some stuff for visa requirements it became apparent that at least as far as one's passport goes the Citizen has far more rights and privileges than the subject.

In brief you are a citizen on the following basis:

The British Nationality Act 1981 came into force on 1 January 1983. It replaced all previous nationality laws.

The 1981 Act replaced citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies with three separate citizenships:-

1. British citizenship, for people closely connected with the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man;

2. British Dependent Territories citizenship, for people connected with the British overseas territories (see Note 3);

3. British Overseas citizenship, for those citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies without connections with either the United Kingdom or the British overseas territories.


Before 1949, nearly all British nationals were known as "British subjects" and, until 1 January 1983, all Commonwealth citizens were also British subjects.

See:

Home Office Page

Cheers

Plume
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Good god almighty. That was a devious move, and nobody seemd to spot it at the time!!

This strikes me that there was a little republican sub-plot going on in the Home Office whereby HM subjects where made to be no longer subjects of HM but citizens only. Either that or they wanted to stop the automatic citizenship that came with being a member of the colonies.
 
#16
As far as I know, the legal standpoint is that if your country has a monarch as Head of State you're a subject, but if the HoS is elected then you're a citizen.

Personally, I'm 'trusty and well beloved' and that's all that matters to me.
 

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