CIAs opium-funded "secret army".

#1
#2
Old news Komrade. The CIA was running drugs in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. They also brought back drugs to the US, to fund the war in Laos and Cambodia.

This is 2005, get with news pal...

How about you put out the numbers of Russian soldiers who deserted during Afghanistan? How about the numbers who were hooked on heroin in Afghanistan? Now, THAT would be some good stuff.
 
#3
Then there was the old tale that Diem Bien Phue was fought to protect the opium route from Laos to Vietnam.
john
Must go read 'The Politics of Heroin in South East Asia' again.
 
#4
Phil306 said:
Old news Komrade. The CIA was running drugs in Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam. They also brought back drugs to the US, to fund the war in Laos and Cambodia.

This is 2005, get with news pal...

How about you put out the numbers of Russian soldiers who deserted during Afghanistan? How about the numbers who were hooked on heroin in Afghanistan? Now, THAT would be some good stuff.
Dear Phil!

My post was not about CIA and drugs. It is not something new. My message was about style of article in Telegraph. Btw the article is recent.

As to Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, then it was a crazy idea of Kremlin elders. Good theme for historical part of this forum.
 
#6
What I hadn't realised until reading Max Hastings book on Korea was the US Forces affinity for drugs even during that conflict.

It wasn't a major topic in his book, but in a chapter on PoWs, and how they reacted. Johnny Turk lost no-one during captivity as they all worked together (and were hard b'stards), Commonwealth troops rubbed along and took the pi$$ out of the guards (some very funny anecdotes, loved the 'landed gentry' bootneck), but the Spams were different.

Admittedly as the major power they were going to be targetted for mind games, and their Guards were from the nastier end of the spectrum. A number were 'turned' and many others lost heart as they lacked our 'Regimental family' concept - not quite "Hello son, I'm the RSM but you can call me Uncle", but you know what I mean ; e.g. Jack Lord at Arnhem.

Anyway, one story referred to a Septic Camp being so remote that it was not so much 'prison' as 'shelter' for the guys. They were given little in the way of rations, and had to forage for firewood on neighbouring ground. Even the guards had noticed that the prisoners were giving up, and only a few were going out foraging while most were wasting away.

Then things picked up. Day by day more went foraging, and morale seemed to pick up, even though their physical condition was unchanged. It turned out that one chap had gone to a further slope and found opium poppies - soon they were all at it.

Hastings didn't give anything further on what happened in the end, but was this the start of the drugs explosion in America?.
 
#7
whiffler said:
............................ but was this the start of the drugs explosion in America?.
I doubt it.
 
#8
Tracy-Paul said:
KGB_resident said:
...Good theme for historical part of this forum.
As is opium-funded secret armies.
Dear Tracy-Paul!

Once again, I made it clear that I propose to discuss style of article in Telegraph. This newspaper is true friend of USA, always warmly supports American military adventures. So mentioned quote is rather in style of Guardian (if not Morning Star).

Also, I would like to attract your attention to the subject of the article.

The last surrender of the Vietnam war began at the weekend, when nearly 200 family members of the CIA's Hmong mercenaries in Laos emerged from the forest and handed themselves over to the authorities...In the next few days as many as 2,000 more Hmong will follow the first group...
So The Telegraph speaks about CIA's mercenaries who surrended (and will surrender) not years ago but just recently. In this context expression

CIA's opium-funded "secret army"
can be regarded as not only historic reference.

General Vang Pao, the commander of the secret army, who made a fortune from opium during the war and is now an exile in America...
So well-known drug-dealer lives in USA. It is not a history, he enjoys American democracy (and his dirty money) namely now.
 
#9
KGB_resident said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=D5GMIUGOSX2EDQFIQMFSNAGAVCBQ0JVC?xml=/news/2005/06/06/whmong06.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/06/ixportal.html

During America's "secret war" in Laos - part of the wider Vietnam conflict - US, Vietnamese and Chinese forces all fought over the country, with members of the impoverished Hmong hill tribe forming the core of the CIA's opium-funded "secret army".
Mmm... is Telegraph a nest of commies? Is it rather Commiegraph?
As you are 'not of this parish' as my father would say, I must be generous and excuse the suggestion inherent in your (admittedly rhetorical) question that the Daily Telegraph has somehow gone all squishy and anti-American - you either know nothing of journalism (and the Torygraph in particular) in Western Europe, or you're just being facetious. The story your refer to is worthy of reportage, regardless of whether or not you wish to throw brickbats at the United States (which you do KBG-r old man, as you have been proving most forcefully since your arrival here).

The funding of anti-Communist ethnic armies such as the Hmong (or Montangnard, or Nung...) was commonplace during the Vietnam War. It was also commonplace during the earlier French war in Indochina. In both instances, it was the practice to 'pay' in the most readily and easliy available 'currency' - opium. Does this excuse the practice? No. Does the fact that it was part of the wider struggle against Communism make it morally justifiable? No. However, the fact that it was common practice 'out there' and very much part of the trade culture makes it easier to understand.

Besides, the use of opium as currency during the Vietnam War was old news twenty years ago - a bit like the My Lai Massacre and other 'scoops' that KGB-r has been entertaining us poor, benighted Westerners with of late. Ah yes, the irony of being morally lectured by an apologist for the USSR. Is this a plot to make us all laugh so hard we suffer collective apoplexy?
 
#10
Dear Gallowglass!

The Telegraph - vulgar newspaper with pretence to be serious. It's a very curious combination so I like to read it. Telegraph could write something like this:

In Laos democracy fighters (Hmong tribe) previously backed by USA have to surrender because USA closed its market for traditional Hmong's export. USA will continue to seek opportunities to establish true democracy in Laos (probably after inevitable success in Iraq).

As to "opium funded armies", My Lai village then it is a history. Here we discuss current events, how current events are reflected in mass-media.

For example. Let's look at this quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/07/iraq.main/index.html

Some 4,000 U.S. troops moved into the Tal Afar area in recent weeks.

Soldiers from the U.S. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, along with hundreds of Iraqi Army soldiers, began the operation in a particularly violent neighborhood just before dawn.
Nothing special there exept 'hundreds' (why not tens thousands?).

The military also hopes to find allies in the neighborhood and identify people who might be friendly to U.S. forces.
Carelees phrase I should say. We are constantly told that Iraqis regard Americans as liberators. But it appears that it is a very hard task to find those who 'who might be friendly to U.S. forces'.
 
#11
The Telegraph - vulgar newspaper with pretence to be serious. It's a very curious combination so I like to read it.
Well that confirms my belief that you know damn all about the Daily Telegraph.

Telegraph could write something like this:
....and then you proceed to enage in a weird journalistic fantasy. Tell me, are you part of some alternative history group or conspiracy theory club? - because I've noticed - as have others on here - that you have a somewhat unnerving tendency to engage in this sort of 'might have/could have/should have' attitude towards history and current affairs.

But it appears that it is a very hard task to find those who 'who might be friendly to U.S. forces'. Because they tend to get shot/blown-up/or hacked to death by the local branch of Jihad Inc.
I'll wager that democracy will come to Iraq long before it ever comes to Russia. You've heard the phrase 'people in glasshouses should'nt throw stones'?
 
#12
I am going totally of topic for the next few minutes just to have a pop at our Komrade friend.

Sergi ever since you joined the ranks of arrse, all of your topics you contribute or start have an anti western rhetoric feel to them.

Not only were these on other subjects nearly calling all of our American friends rapist if they served in the forces, but also totally denying and closing your blinkers to points pointed out about war crimes that Russia have committed and the mass rapings in Chechnya, then dismissing them as old hat. Now you feel you have to drag something up that is even older!

You may feel you are adding weight to your stories as to discuss about the history of something that happened over 20 years ago with opium funded armies in the Vietnam or even Korea, yet you cannot deny Russian troops in Afghanistan must have been ‘ High as a kite’ most of the time due to opium being a major source from that country. You will however deny this as you will put it down to ‘ hear say’

But get with the program, if you have something useful to say then by all means. I have a pop at our American cousins every now and again, as I know they do back to us, but please spare us your self-righteous undertone political agenda you are trying influence on us
 
#13
Hear, hear Sabre.

Tovarishch seems only to have the opinion West = bad and Soviet = good and cannot permit himself to have any other point of view. This is an extremely sad stance (read loser) as neither side have the monopoly on good or bad. There have been some great things to come from both sides and some complete atrocities. I am beginning to think it is nothing but a wind up merchant.

Tovarishch you have had a couple of opportunities to reply to me directly through the forums (or PM) and prove otherwise. You have failed to take them up so far. Grab your mums cojones and give it a shot :D

I am not expecting anything from you though. I feel you will only continue with your pointless diatribes and only answer selected posts, as you have neither the wherewithal nor intelligence to do otherwise.
 
#14
His command of English is too good to support the continued absence of pronouns in his posts:

KGB_resident said:
I propose to discuss style of article in Telegraph.
He writes like a bad Holywood actor playing a Russian baddie would speak. I Think the man is about as Russian as John Rhys Davis in the Bond films.
 
#15
Dear Gallowglass!

gallowglass said:
I'll wager that democracy will come to Iraq long before it ever comes to Russia. You've heard the phrase 'people in glasshouses should'nt throw stones'?
It is your opinion and I respect it. I would like to make one little note. Democracy is not something constant, its definition depends on level of development of society. Where was democracy in USA and slavery at one time.

No even shade of critics there but let's regard this situation:

In one imaginary country head of state is not elected. One house of parliament of this imaginary country is not elected too. In another house one party has a majority but ony 36% voted for this party.

From point of view of Matians this imaginary country is not democratic at all. So agree, if you haven't enough information then you can make absolutely wrong estimates.

From my point of view previous information is not sufficient, moreover this imaginary country could be one of the most democratic countries of the World.

What do you know about Russia? Too few I suspect and the knowledge is derived from only one source (or few very similar sources). By contrast I know enough about British and American political systems, I read BBC (in English), American and British newspapers daily.

As to glass house then I it would be very kind of you to throw stones. I would support you if you would be right about real wrongdoings in modern Russia.

Regards!
 
#16
Hi!

mizkrissi said:
West = bad and Soviet = good
It is not my words. Absolutely disagree with wthis formulae. Sorry, if I failed to answer your questions. Probably I missed them. You can repeat them there and I will try to comment. I swear to monitor this thread.

Warmest regards form Moscow!
 
#17
Hi Sabre!

Sabre said:
an anti western rhetoric
Truth can't be anti-Western or anti-Russian. If truth could improve situation then it is definitely pro-Western and pro-Russian.

One theme (I think you understand) was strongly prohibited by our dear moderator Part Tume Pongo, so no comments.

...you cannot deny Russian troops in Afghanistan must have been ‘ High as a kite’ most of the time due to opium being a major source from that country. You will however deny this as you will put it down to ‘ hear say’
Why are you so sure that 'I will deny' something? I will thank you for interesting information.

Best wishes!
 
#18
Once again for the hard of hearing.

I am content that KGB Resident is posting from east of Rostov-on-Don. While some of his posts are contentious , and may raise the hackles of a view , bear in mind, that KGB's persona was born in a time before Glasnost, and as such, may hold some views that some of you here in the 'Liberated and freedom loving West' find difficult to understand.

This is most obvious in the exchanges between KGB , the cousins, and those of you who served in a time when 3rd Shock would be at Venlo for Tea.

KGB has also provided me, the Moderator with contact details in the Rodina , which I am happy with. Of course, he could just be a Darksider having a giggle in the steel doughnut , but the fact is when he is not talking about the 'R' topic , he does provide a perspective that does excite debate , and that is what we are here for.

There is no excuse for ad hominem attacks on a poster , purely based on where they come from. Everyone of us has a different view of the world in which we live .

PTP

Addendum - NTM to Military History.
 

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