Church abuse cases, should religious leaders shut up shop?

#41
When at an educational establishment not a million miles from Horsham in the 1980s I was confirmed by the now convicted bishop of Chichester, Peter Ball. One of the people Welby is now having to manage the fallout from.

Presently my history teacher, chaplain and squash master from that same school are going through the courts on sexual abuse charges. Perhaps innocent, perhaps not. Last year two former masters of the school (not my era) were convicted for abuse - one a repeat offender.

If the chaplain is convicted I think it will bode very ill for the CofE - perhaps Welby is getting in some preemptive remorse?

It’s an outrage that this happened. To the subject of the post, sadly I think that ill governed and complacent places like Christ’s Hospital School was (perhaps still is) will allow abuse to take place and it’s not necessarily material if they are lay or clergy?
Oh and thanks for offloading one of your convicted Paedos (maths and physics) on my gaff, presumably with a glowing reference.
 
#42
In which case they would be others-botherers.
On that rationale Chuggers, ( charity muggers; the ones that waylay you in the street for money ) are people that mug charities.

That's the problem with colloquialisms, by their very nature don't follow a strict logic.
 
#43
On that rationale Chuggers, ( charity muggers; the ones that waylay you in the street for money ) are people that mug charities.

That's the problem with colloquialisms, by their very nature don't follow a strict logic.
Calling them 'people who go around preaching about their interpretation of their religion door to door, or maybe just in the street or even at a party, y'know like that one we regretted going to and they had the awful wallpaper in the living room' doesn't really trip off the tongue.
 
#45
Religions should be treated as anyother business, they should pay taxes and be subject to the same regulations. The Catholic Church should be prosecuted for allowing the scale of abuse to go on unhindered for so long and CofE should also be sued. Mosques should be investigated and any that allow abuse and denial of human rights should be shut and assets sold, same goes for all faith schools.
 
#46
What other people think and believe is no business of mine unless it affects me. Don't care what religion or cult you follow but the minute it causes problems for me, we have an issue.

Going around blowing things up is problematic. Gibbering in a basement isn't.
 
#47
What other people think and believe is no business of mine unless it affects me. Don't care what religion or cult you follow but the minute it causes problems for me, we have an issue.

Going around blowing things up is problematic. Gibbering in a basement isn't.
I'd go with 'unless it adversely affects others, in particular me'

There is a whole range of things that fall between gibbering in a basement and blowing stuff up.
Charity, sexual abuse, radicalisation and of course the worst of all, Nuns not being sexy young ladies gagging for it like some are in Benny Hill.
 
#48
Religions should be treated as anyother business, they should pay taxes and be subject to the same regulations. The Catholic Church should be prosecuted for allowing the scale of abuse to go on unhindered for so long and CofE should also be sued. Mosques should be investigated and any that allow abuse and denial of human rights should be shut and assets sold, same goes for all faith schools.
Again,you're confusing the Church with religion !

Martin Luther sorted all that out centuries ago, you can't tax a belief ?
 
#49
Again,you're confusing the Church with religion !

Martin Luther sorted all that out centuries ago, you can't tax a belief ?
but they can keep on begging for money for a new roof to believe that belief underneath
 
#50
Again,you're confusing the Church with religion !

Martin Luther sorted all that out centuries ago, you can't tax a belief ?
Churches are run as a business and therefore should be treated as such.
 
#51
I'd go with 'unless it adversely affects others, in particular me'

There is a whole range of things that fall between gibbering in a basement and blowing stuff up.
Charity, sexual abuse, radicalisation and of course the worst of all, Nuns not being sexy young ladies gagging for it like some are in Benny Hill.
Fair enough. I'll go wth that. Problem is we need to draw the line somewhere close to home or we'll end up being offended by proxy for just about everything anyone says or does.
 
#52
#53
you can't tax a belief
I belived I was a competent tradesman, the bastards taxed me for 50 years. Religious orders, all faiths, without favour, are multi national money generating conglomerates, with "Branches" world wide, with millions in the bank, and portfolios of holdings, buildings and stocks and shares, the church of Rome , is rich beyond measure, as is most mainstream organised religions. Monies donated by hard pressed followers, ordinary people, who in the belief think that they are helping the needy, play into the greedy hands of those that set themselves up as arbiters of all that is good and true.

The whole set up stinks, its morally corrupt, hypocritical, two faced and since time immemorial, has been taking the piss of the gullible and easily led. Tax the bastards.
 
#54
I'd like to add my two cents worth, if I might, and for what it's worth. I grew up and was educated in the Roman Catholic system in Australia. I experienced three incidents of what I would consider vicious physical abuse, which I don't wish to go into. Suffice it to say that such experiences change the way one sees the world, and that they are difficult things from which to recover, particularly when, as in my case, one incident contained elements of sexual abuse.

The way I see the Church of England, they were and are, "Roman Catholic Light." I mean Henry the Eighth of that name made himself the head of the Church of England because the Pope wouldn't grant him a divorce (or more technically an 'Annulment' of his marriage) to Catharine of Aragon.

He also did that so he could loot all the monasteries and direct their income toward keeping himself in the style to which he'd become accustomed. Nonetheless, and this is quite a laugh, he kept one of the Catholic titles granted him by the Pope, "Fidei Defensor," or "Defender of the Faith." That today is shown by the letters FD which you will see on British coins and medals.

And the whole thing was ultimately about a Middle Eastern sect of Judaism to which the principle of Occam's Razor should have been applied. Jesus was supposed to have been born of a virgin. Was he? My own explanation would be that the alleged virgin was betrothed (we would say 'engaged') to a man, and when she became pregnant from another source, the explanation was offered up that she had been impregnated by the Holy Spirit, whereas in reality another dirty dog had jumped the wall and put the bitch in pup.

This is the explanation supposedly refuted by the Church Father Origen in his "Contra Celsum." (Against Celsus.) Celsus was the Greek philosopher who first put forth the above explanation. Call me a reprobate and tell me I'm going to Hell, and I don't care, that too is a myth, based on Dante's Inferno and the Greek myth of Tartarus.
 
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#57
but they can keep on begging for money for a new roof to believe that belief underneath
No, that's the fabric of a building, you don't need a physical church to believe. I would personally send the bill to Duncan Welby c/o Lambeth Palace, there's plenty of cash in the coffers. :wink:
 
#58
I belived I was a competent tradesman, the bastards taxed me for 50 years. Religious orders, all faiths, without favour, are multi national money generating conglomerates, with "Branches" world wide, with millions in the bank, and portfolios of holdings, buildings and stocks and shares, the church of Rome , is rich beyond measure, as is most mainstream organised religions. Monies donated by hard pressed followers, ordinary people, who in the belief think that they are helping the needy, play into the greedy hands of those that set themselves up as arbiters of all that is good and true.

The whole set up stinks, its morally corrupt, hypocritical, two faced and since time immemorial, has been taking the piss of the gullible and easily led. Tax the bastards.
Couldn't agree more, I grew up in a part of London that paid rent to the CoE, they then sold most of their properties to a nice man called Rachman and, the rest they say is history. the Anglican and the Catholic Churches have enough spondulicks invested all over the World, they're not poor. I have never put money in a collection plate in Church, I donate to specific charities end off (none are religious charities), if churches need money, they can always appeal to Bono or Geldorf, two fine upstanding Taigs. :wink:
 
#59
Should the army lose its recognition and patronage from the Royal Family and Parliament because some of its members have, from time to time, done dreadful things that CGS has felt he had to apologise for?
Probably not. See, it's the only Army the Royal Family have, whereas the CofE is one of many dressing-up-and-chanting clubs they can pick from.
 

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