Chronicles of war in Ukraine

Taken from the forum rules as a reminders:

There has been a recent trend of people posting only links, or cut and pastes from articles sourced elsewhere.

Whilst it's acceptable to use extracts to support a point, the source should be clear, and there should be accompanying analysis or discussion.

Don't post only links, or only articles or extracts.

Don't post copyright material without acknowledging the copyright.
I believe that our friend Ellebal tries to make a point - The Russian state historically was hostile to the Muslims, oppressed them. Partially is it right. However, it is not that simple.
Ivan 4th the Terrible who captured Kazan and made Tarars his subjects decided to integrate Tatar nobility into Russian nobility, not destroy it completely. As a result many Russian aristocrats (princes Yusipovs, princes Meshchersky, for example) are of Tatar descent. Many surnames of Russian nobles have Tatar origin. For example, Michurin, Turgenev, Skryabin, Beklemishev (from Bek Lemish), Karamzin (from Kara Murza - Black Murza). By the way, the first fundamental history of Russian state in 12 volumes was written by outstanding historian, writer and poet Nikolay Karamzin. Maybe you know about roman of famous Russian writer Dostoyevsky - "The Karamazov brothers". Karamazov surname is also originated from Kara Murza. Katherina the Great in 1784 by her order gave full rights to Tatar nobilty making it equal to rights of Russian nobility.
 
Last edited:
Putin has transformed Russia into another North Korea...The Russian people are not getting any breaks having suffered 70 years of mind numbing, culture obliterating Soviet dictatorships...but then again, I have the feeling many Russians, if not the great majority of them (including KGB!) just like things the way they are! Soaking in the empire and glory of Russia while eating cabbage soup with half your family in gulags....
I believe that the main Russian problems are - huge level of corruption, control of economy by oligarchs, lowering of educational standards. There is a lot of other problems. North Korea... Why not Upper Volta?
 
I believe that our friend Ellebal tries to make a point - The Russian state historically was hostile to the Muslims, oppressed them. Partially is it right. However, it is not that simple.
Ivan 4th the Terrible who captured Kazan and made Tarars his subjects decided to integrate Tatar nobility into Russian nobility, not destroy it completely. As a result many Russian aristocrats (princes Yusipovs, princes Meshchersky, for example) are of Tatar descent. Many surnames of Russian nobles have Tatar origin. For example, Michurin, Turgenev, Skryabin, Beklemishev (from Bek Lemish), Karamzin (from Kara Murza - Black Murza). By the way, the first fundamental history of Russian state in 12 volumes was written by outstanding historian, writer and poet Nikolay Karamzin. Maybe you know about roman of famous Russian writer Dostoyevsky - "The Karamazov brothers". Karamazov surname is also originated from Kara Murza. Katherina the Great in 1784 by her order gave full rights to Tatar nobilty making it equal to rights of Russian nobility.
I don't think you are getting my point KGB...History is not kind to Russia, doesn't matter how far back you look, and things have not changed for the better at present, obviously. Wikipedia speaks of millions of Russia`s minorities, including the Ukrainians, dead, displaced, uprooted, sent into exile or death camps...something Russians are still doing t this day...your counter argument is to shamelessly identify a few chosen nobility members of Tatar or Muslim origin propped up into position of responsibility to somehow absolve Russia's pathetic murderous history! Next you're gona tell us there are Ukrainians in the Russian army... In Canada we call this putting lipstick on a pig.

I find interesting you chose to quote me getting told not to quote, paste or link without supporting arguments. But I understand why you did it...Wikipedia`s rendition of history must be very annoying to Russians, including you and Putin who shows no compunctions coming up with a cleaned up version of Russian history...Putin declared a few days ago "The Soviet Union signed a non-aggression agreement with Germany. (Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) They say, ‘Oh, how bad.’ But what is so bad about it, if the Soviet Union did not want to fight? What is so bad?” when in fact Putin's prior position on this Russian-Germany alliance was that it was "immoral"...You and Bloodimir have few things in common; stubborn, pathetic and deluded revisionist...a good Russian pair!

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/nov/10/putin-nostalgia-stalin-hitler/
 
Why did Putin bother to turn up at the G20? Clearly he was going to get a frosty welcome, and by leaving early he looks as if he is slinking off with tail between legs.

I suspect the Russian state controlled media will spin things rather differently, legging it early while launching a middle finger salute with gunboats in tow, perhaps.

However the bleating about sanctions is instructive. The economy continues to tank.
 
Discussions that invovle Russian history could be endless. Was it 'murderous' or not especially in comparison with history of some colonial empires? It is an interesting question but that it not connected directly to the theme of the thread.
http://www.unian.info/economics/100...hout-investment-ukraine-may-face-default.html
Ukraine has become poorer since collapse of the Soviet Union, with war in the East aggravating the economic problems, and the country will thrive only if private investors take the risk of investing in its economy
Now economy will determine everything.
The country needs large investments in infrastructure, particularly in the war-torn east. The IMF is not able to provide all of this, as here we are talking about short-term financing. Other credit grantors, such as America and the EU, are idling in taking decision on this matter, the Economist writes.
Ukraine will not see money from IMF,US, EU. There will be not new investments. Russian banks reportedly invested $25 billions in Ukraine and fate of this huge money is dim.

Meanwhile
http://www.unian.info/economics/1008330-nbu-head-soros-searching-for-funds-for-ukraine.html
U.S. financier George Soros is trying to raise funds to support Ukraine
Note that mr.Soros doesn't invest own money in Ukraine but tries to find idiots that are ready to invest in Ukrainian 'black hole'.

Any war is an expensive business. But without money Kiev government is doomed.
 
Last edited:
Why did Putin bother to turn up at the G20? Clearly he was going to get a frosty welcome, and by leaving early he looks as if he is slinking off with tail between legs.

I suspect the Russian state controlled media will spin things rather differently, legging it early while launching a middle finger salute with gunboats in tow, perhaps.

However the bleating about sanctions is instructive. The economy continues to tank.
He needed to turn up or his Navy would have looked more than a little odd parked off the Australian coast with no mandate to support the 'little' guy!
 
What we are seeing now is the leader of a country who is intensely disliked across the globe, a pariah. Someone, who for the past eight months, has been blitzkrieging the world with disinformation, distortions, and outright lies; as soon as one of his myths, lies or distortions is debunked a dozen more mysteriously appear. Quite honestly it has been a baffling reinvention of reality and a mass hallucination.

As for the man himself he continues to turn up like a bad penny when hosts would prefer he did not attend. When we attended the 70th anniversary celebration of the D-Day landings earlier in the year it was very obvious to me that many were seeking ways of avoiding talking to him.

I am led to believe that there has been a meeting between our supposed President and Putin where Hollande was angrily told there will be consequences if the completed helicopter carrier was not handed over. This is someone who has been backed into a corner and is wildly striking out anyone he can.

Now, having been “told his fortune” by his peers in Brisbane he is allegedly proposing to run away as he cannot take the pressure or accept criticism of his actions. My view of this course of action, if it takes place, is to show the Russian people what a strong leader they have, when in fact he is running from the truth of his position. Something we should all be aware of is Putin is allegedly taking steps to annex Abkhazia and South Ossetia – regions of other sovereign nations he has destabilized during the time he has held power.
 
......

Now, having been “told his fortune” by his peers in Brisbane he is allegedly proposing to run away as he cannot take the pressure or accept criticism of his actions. My view of this course of action, if it takes place, is to show the Russian people what a strong leader they have, when in fact he is running from the truth of his position. Something we should all be aware of is Putin is allegedly taking steps to annex Abkhazia and South Ossetia – regions of other sovereign nations he has destabilized during the time he has held power.
Yup;
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/754846
Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich commented on a Georgian Foreign Ministry statement censuring a draft interstate treaty under way between Russia and Abkhazia
 
As the Ukraine Government does not have control over parts of Donetsk regions and Luhansk region, all State services funding in those affected areas will now cease. Why pay for services you have no control over? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30072483

Also the rubbish imagery published in Russia claiming that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian Air Force Mig has been shown to be faked. Didn't take long to prove the fakery, believed in Russia as genuine. The stupid Kremlinbots didn't even use an image of a Boeing 777 in the fake photo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-state-broadcaster-MH17-shot-shoddy-fake.html
 
Sunday, November 16, 2014

Under Fire In Ukraine, OSCE Questions Its Worth

“ By Olena Removska, Daisy Sindelar and Lyudmyla Wannek
Last updated (GMT/UTC): 14.11.2014 10:17

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, fighting back against mounting allegations of pro-Russian bias in its Ukraine crisis missions, has gone on the offensive, calling for stronger support and better access to the porous Ukraine-Russia border . . ”

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-crisis-russia-osce-monitoring-mission/26690263.html
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Radio Free Europe. Radio Liberty. Sunday, November 16, 2014

Live Blog: Ukraine In Crisis

Latest News

-- Vladimir Putin made an early exit from the G20 summit in Brisbane, Australia, after world leaders gave the Russian president an earful of criticism over Moscow's actions in Ukraine.



-- News emerged that President Petro Poroshenko issued several decrees aimed at revoking the so-called special status of areas of eastern Ukraine under separatist control and reducing national ties, including ceasing some public and financial services.

-- Evidence mounted that Russian state television broadcast a poorly doctored photo to suggest there was evidence that a military jet shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

-- The United States said it had information that a Russian air-defense system "was operating near [a] separatist convoy in Donetsk - suggest[ing] Russian forces were protecting" the column.

*NOTE: Times are stated according to local time in Kyiv

http://www.rferl.org/contentlive/liveblog/25416257.html
 
Have received some disturbing intel from a chap I met in Rostov a few weeks back.

Allegedly, senior Russian military commanders are none too happy that their forces are not getting the recognition that they deserve.

It was the military that captured Crimea, but the Kremlin has portrayed it as a local political uprising which they, the Kremlin, embraced.

It is the military that 'saved' the so-called DPR and LPR from being overrun. It is the military that are shedding blood trying to preserve those illegal entities. Body bags are returning in ever greater numbers. And the Kremlin denies their very presence, and shuts down any media report.

My source claims that some senior officers of the Southern Military District have decided that enough is enough. Allegedly, they are considering upping the ante in Ukraine to force recognition of their efforts. In effect, Putin is being bullied now by the nationalists and the military.

It is also suggested that the latest moves in Abkhazia are a deliberate ploy by the Kremlin to distract their attention.
 
Sunday, November 16, 2014

Under Fire In Ukraine, OSCE Questions Its Worth

“ By Olena Removska, Daisy Sindelar and Lyudmyla Wannek
Last updated (GMT/UTC): 14.11.2014 10:17

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), fighting back against mounting allegations of pro-Russian bias in its Ukraine crisis missions, has gone on the offensive, calling for stronger support and better access to the porous Ukraine-Russia border . . .

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-crisis-russia-osce-monitoring-mission/26690263.html
On the other hand a few days ago the Russians accused them of being pro-Ukraine.
They p*ssed off Putin by reporting on Russian troop movements to the Ukraine
 
See our "Russian" friend is taking genuine media reports from trusted sources and twisting them to suit a particular agenda.

Russia will suffer further isolation in the coming weeks as further moves are made by the rest of the world, including the Chinese. We only have to carefully analyse the sound-bites coming out of Brisbane to know that is the case. It is not the words we should be listening to but the way in which they are phrased and the intonation/body-language.

Putin rushed out of Brisbane like a prima ballerina with a theatrical flounce. But if you looked carefully at his body language he was in turmoil - Vlady no friends. Even the Chinese did not come to his aid, instead kept a respectful distance from everybody whilst smiling sweetly and planning further misery for him. Watch this space.............
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads