Chinooks and M60s

#1
It could be that I haven;t been paying enough attention to the footage lately, but last time I noticed the RAF Chinooks still seem to be fitted with M60s on the rear ramp. Granted they have mini-guns in the side doors, but it just struck me as curious that on the tail it's an M60 and not a GPMG. I seem to recall it was all about type approval, most of which we've adopted from the US as it's an American airframe. Apart from the fact that there are plainly other better things to spend money at the moment, are there any other reasons noone's tried to approve the fit of a GPMG? It must be a pain to have to stock spares and run training just for that one heli crew when we have a standard issue weapon of the same type.
Hope that made some sort of sense...
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#2
It was either certify the GPMG for the Chinook tail or buy a ready certified weapon, which was the cheapest option. The Chinook also came ready for the weapon, so it was a case of plug-and-play.

As it happens the septics are looking to swap out their M60s for their version of the GPMG on the back of their Chinooks
 
#3
It was either certify the GPMG for the Chinook tail or buy a ready certified weapon, which was the cheapest option. The Chinook also came ready for the weapon, so it was a case of plug-and-play.

As it happens the septics are looking to swap out their M60s for their version of the GPMG on the back of their Chinooks
Correctamundo - Chinooks came with M60s as part of the deal so there was no need to re-design it to fit GPMG. Not sure about the rest of the US mil but the USMC were using GPMGs , designated M240, in Afghan. They were stealing spares off us for a change :)
 
R

renamed_user

Guest
#5
I always wanted to know why the RAF had M60's. Anyone who has had to strip, clean and reassemble will know what a truely awful piece of junk it is, the weaopn breaks down into many small metal clips and pins which in the heat of battle or on a dark winters night would be impossible to rebuild, no wonder the US were beaten in SE Asia! After only a week in the field (SPTA) a good number of our M60s would be U/S.The M60 is rare example of an American weapon being binned in favour of a Brit/European weapon so why the RAF didnt just modify the mount on the chinook is beyond my simple brain.
 
#6
I always wanted to know why the RAF had M60's. Anyone who has had to strip, clean and reassemble will know what a truely awful piece of junk it is, the weaopn breaks down into many small metal clips and pins which in the heat of battle or on a dark winters night would be impossible to rebuild, no wonder the US were beaten in SE Asia! After only a week in the field (SPTA) a good number of our M60s would be U/S.The M60 is rare example of an American weapon being binned in favour of a Brit/European weapon so why the RAF didnt just modify the mount on the chinook is beyond my simple brain.
'Cos it makes em way cooler screaming "Get some Baby"
 
#8
'Cos it makes em way cooler screaming "Get some Baby"
"Anyone who runs is Terry. Anyone who stands still is well disciplined Terry..."
 
#9
"Anyone who runs is Terry. Anyone who stands still is well disciplined Terry..."
No, no, no.

"How do you shoot women and children?!"

"Oh thats easy, you just don't give them as much lead"
 
#11
Having used both the GPMG and the M60D weapon systems in the Air, the M60D is a far superior A-G Weapon. The barrels flex far less and the CH47 mount is much more robust. Therefore the beating zone is greatly reduced. Further more as some of you have highlighted it has a fixed gas piston and therefore doesn't need balancing. This makes it more reliable. I appreciate that it is an old design and is agricultural but it is reliable. Far more reliable than any GMPG ARD variant. The M60D will go out of service Circa 2015 when a new weapon will be fitted. Even then it will be a dedicated air weapon and not some bastardised ground gun. With regard to who cleans ac weapons, I go to the range fire 16,000+ plus rnds in just over an hour then when done hand the guns back to armoury; who "maintain" them for me. I dont even graze my knuckles doing the fiddly bolt / operating rod thing. I'm sure somebody will think thats wrong but quite clearly they are either just jealous or can't see when somebody has got something right.
 
#12
With regard to who cleans ac weapons, I go to the range fire 16,000+ plus rnds in just over an hour then when done hand the guns back to armoury; who "maintain" them for me. I dont even graze my knuckles doing the fiddly bolt / operating rod thing. I'm sure somebody will think thats wrong but quite clearly they are either just jealous or can't see when somebody has got something right.
Lazy ****...
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
With regard to who cleans ac weapons, I go to the range fire 16,000+ plus rnds in just over an hour then when done hand the guns back to armoury; who "maintain" them for me. I dont even graze my knuckles doing the fiddly bolt / operating rod thing. I'm sure somebody will think thats wrong but quite clearly they are either just jealous or can't see when somebody has got something right.
Do you have a man to load it and cock it for you also?
 
#14
Having used both the GPMG and the M60D weapon systems in the Air, the M60D is a far superior A-G Weapon. The barrels flex far less and the CH47 mount is much more robust. Therefore the beating zone is greatly reduced. Further more as some of you have highlighted it has a fixed gas piston and therefore doesn't need balancing. This makes it more reliable. I appreciate that it is an old design and is agricultural but it is reliable. Far more reliable than any GMPG ARD variant. The M60D will go out of service Circa 2015 when a new weapon will be fitted. Even then it will be a dedicated air weapon and not some bastardised ground gun. With regard to who cleans ac weapons, I go to the range fire 16,000+ plus rnds in just over an hour then when done hand the guns back to armoury; who "maintain" them for me. I dont even graze my knuckles doing the fiddly bolt / operating rod thing. I'm sure somebody will think thats wrong but quite clearly they are either just jealous or can't see when somebody has got something right.
Barrel flex? I'm not surprised after 16,000+ rounds in just over an hour!!!
CH47 mount much more robust than what?
"Beating" zone? Surely you mean the beaten zone, who taught you the theory of machine gun fire?
L112 ARD dosent need balancing.
M60D is a bastardised ground gun.


So all in all, an interesting but damning post that gives even more reasons why the RAF are civvies in uniform.


I'm looking forward to the introduction of the JHC Operational Shooting Policy, its going to completely **** up cowboy cnuts like you.
 
#15
With regard to who cleans ac weapons, I go to the range fire 16,000+ plus rnds in just over an hour then when done hand the guns back to armoury; who "maintain" them for me. I dont even graze my knuckles doing the fiddly bolt / operating rod thing. I'm sure somebody will think thats wrong but quite clearly they are either just jealous or can't see when somebody has got something right.
I once had to investigate a load of 1B1T that had been left on the tail of a Chinook in open boxes half filled with water... rusted solid!

Idle air gunners had just wandered off and leave them after each sortie.. Idle twats - the lot of them. And as for turning 16K Lead into Brass, I cannot see any reasonable excuse for putting that much wear on what are, after all, self defence weapons. (Apart from the cost and effort to get the ammuniton into the theatre in the first place...)
 
#17
Barrel flex? I'm not surprised after 16,000+ rounds in just over an hour!!!
CH47 mount much more robust than what?
"Beating" zone? Surely you mean the beaten zone, who taught you the theory of machine gun fire?
L112 ARD dosent need balancing.
M60D is a bastardised ground gun.


So all in all, an interesting but damning post that gives even more reasons why the RAF are civvies in uniform.


I'm looking forward to the introduction of the JHC Operational Shooting Policy, its going to completely **** up cowboy cnuts like you.
Seconded, you gash ******* *******. The sooner your joke of a career stream is binned the better.
 
#19
Hmmm. These "gash ******* *******" drive the bus that gets injured squaddies back to BSN. Probably best not to bin their "joke of a career stream".
I'm aware of who flys the aircraft. I was refering to the crewmen. **** off and dust the sand out of your fanny.
 
#20
I always wanted to know why the RAF had M60's. Anyone who has had to strip, clean and reassemble will know what a truely awful piece of junk it is, the weaopn breaks down into many small metal clips and pins which in the heat of battle or on a dark winters night would be impossible to rebuild, no wonder the US were beaten in SE Asia! After only a week in the field (SPTA) a good number of our M60s would be U/S.The M60 is rare example of an American weapon being binned in favour of a Brit/European weapon so why the RAF didnt just modify the mount on the chinook is beyond my simple brain.
Since when is the FN MAG a British designed weapon?

I carried an M60 for 33 months it has good and bad points, most of the bad were addressed in the M60E4(USN Mk43/Mod 0) but Army decided to stick with the M240 (yet are desperate to lighten it for dismounted work). I've used both it and the M240 in combat dismounted and I would take a Properly PMCS'd M-60 any day for patrol work. FN MAG is a great tripod or vehicle mounted medium machinegun but light it ain't.

I mean I could say as ignorantly as you that the SA80 is why you lost in Basra chump, but like your theory its as full of shit.

And the US uses Weapons made from all over the world from the Italian M9 Berreta to the German 120mm M256 Cannon and the Bae M777 155mm Howitzer
 
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