Chinese Police Kill Protestors

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by tomahawk6, Dec 10, 2005.

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  1. Internal decent is Chiana's long term problem. Corrupt officials are part of the way of life in the Orient, Government wages are by tradition low and it is "expected" that officials will top up as required.
    Dissent. Must buy a spellchecker.
  2. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    I see that this piece if from Fox, a network renowned for its impartiality, and who have brought us such gems a Jack Bauer in '24' (I must add I never miss an episode!!!)

    Just as a little juxtopposition I'd like to post this, a little older and certainly not news....

    'In the days following the Presidential announcement, students on University campuses across the United States were protesting the US invasion of Cambodia. At Kent State University in Ohio, protesters threw rocks and broke some windows. Some students tried to burn the ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) building. On 3 May, 1970, Ohio Governor James Rhodes called in the National Guard. The National Guard units that responded were poorly trained and had just completed riot duty elsewhere. The first day, there was some brutality; members of the National Guard bayoneted two men, one of whom was a disabled veteran, who had cursed or yelled at them from cars.
    On 4 May, the National Guard marched down a hill, to a field in the middle of angry demonstrators, then back up again. Seconds before they would have passed around the corner of a large building, and out of sight of the crowd, some of the Guardsmen wheeled and fired directly into the students, hitting 13 and killing four of them. The firing lasted for 13 seconds. Guardsmen later admitted to firing at specific unarmed targets; one man shot a demonstrator who was giving him the finger. The unarmed students who were shot raged from 60 feet to 700 feet away from the Guardsmen.'

    I mean I can understand shooting the students, but bayoneting a disabled veteran, surely that's beyond the pale....

    (As a postscript I saw a very sexy strong looking chinese lady today, maybe I'll defect...oh wait there you have to be running away from something to defect...ok then maybe I'll emigrate :roll: )
  3. Odd that you would dredge something up from over 30 years ago when it has zip to do with unrest in China.
  4. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    Well the article deemed it fit what was that word you used...dredge the incident from Tiananmen 15 years ago, but I guess when it comes to time periods relating to dredging what you say goes. I think maybe the crux here is does China claim to be democratic? No it plainly does not, it's a one party state, it doesn't even pretend to be. The US on the other hand does, and I might hasten to add did 30 years ago. But of course you and I both know that's really just copy for the idiots...oh sorry...'electorate'.

    As to relevance, the key in this is the word 'unrest'. Let me ask you a question; Does a green apple have anything in common with a green pear? I'll give you twenty attempts to get the right answer....
  5. You're being too generous Nehustan, even T6 will only need 2 attempts at that one. Oh, come to think of it.....

  6. Just,meant as a footnote,Harvey Andrews,the Guy who wrote the famous N.I. song, Soldier,also wrote a very poignant song about the murders in Kent,called Hey Sandy.

  7. Which you can still get. Harvey's an acquaintance of mine from the old days and I was in touch with him last year. Here's his website The album you want is "Writer of Songs". It's absolutely excellent, as is most of Harvey's stuff. He has a philosophy - if he didn't write it - he doesn't sing it.
  8. T6 is right... That article has fack all to do with the Chinese unrest... If you look as far as 35 years back then most countries have events they are not proud of... such as Bloody Sunday for the UK....

    I don't think the system of democracy is 100% perfect in the US (far from it in fact) but I'd much rather live there than in China...

  9. I wouldn't quote Bloody Sunday as being something we're not proud of. Burntollet perhaps but Bloody Sunday is something that other people contributed to.
  10. Well assuming you are right and that other people did contribute to it... I'd argue that accidents/disasters are nearly always two way streets... With actions by all sides leading to it...

    Returning to the thread... The point remains - there is a lot of division in China and it'll be interesting to see how this affects the emergence of the country over the next 20 years...

  11. I appreciate your diplomacy and don't wish to sound overtly hostile in any way but if you know your history you'll be aware that the Civil Rights Movement was formed by the Wolfe Tone Societies and the IRA (Stickies) to foment civil disturbance in Northern Ireland. The march that day was from an offshoot of the CRM. I give you that a lot of innocent people were there, oblivious to the fact that they were being used. You and I have also spoken on other threads about how it has been proven that both the Stickies and PIRA were involved that day.

    Notwithstanding that - a country the size of China, which is also an emergent democracy is going to have huge political problems and as their morality and ethics is based on a different culture which we sometimes see as barbaric (who is right and who is wrong?) then we're going to see much more of this before full democracy is established. You only have to look at the problems in many of the former parts of the USSR to get an idea of what the world may face.
  12. Well not quite actually... The debate usually goes like this... you stating something... me asking why you say that.... you saying read some books its all in there... me saying i'm no historian but have read the odd book - where does it support what you say?... you listing a dozen books and internet articles and saying read them all the answer is in there... me asking for a 'chain of logic' or why you say something.... you saying read the books then you'll agree with me... finally - me getting bored and saying sod that for a game of soldiers...

  13. So you can't read? Not my problem pal :D
  14. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    It has everything to do with this thread as I pointed out, and the tenor of the report just struck me can I put this, how about a cliched axiom 'people in glass houses'. As regarding Bloody Sunday, if I was to post such an article as a Brit, in some kind of claim to the moral high ground, I would fully expect somebody to bring it up. Tho' as pointed out there were paramilitaries involved in the N.I. situation, so I may well tell them they should choose a closer example of British brutality, say the salt tax incidents during the Raj.

    As to where I'd choose to live, I'd have to choose China for history and culture. I can do without the mirage of democracy.