CHINA'S LIABILITY?

Both involve ideology, both have a sense of nation.
That does not nail it.
An ideology isn't a state. That's a pretty clear distinction.

Just a thought, did you mean Nazism and the CCP's brand of Marxism-Leninism?
 
An ideology isn't a state. That's a pretty clear distinction.

Just a thought, did you mean Nazism and the CCP's brand of Marxism-Leninism?
Or 'extreme capitalism' as it is practiced these days in China
 
An ideology isn't a state. That's a pretty clear distinction.

Just a thought, did you mean Nazism and the CCP's brand of Marxism-Leninism?
Both involve ideology, and this post was aimed more at PRC than the now defunct CCP.

I am astounded that we are going to let the Peoples Republic of China get away with the damage it has done.

It has done.
Not individual people - their State.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Having endured a particularly mentalist conspiracy theory being ranted at me recently
QUOTE I saw it on Facebook - and there's no smoke without fire!' UNQUOTE - this bit of reality was ,madly, rather reassuring:


Beijing says COVID-19 situation is 'extremely severe' as new cluster emerges

A city official warned that the novel coronavirus situation in China's capital is "extremely severe" as 27 new infections were recorded on Tuesday. It comes amid fears of a second wave after an outbreak was linked to a large wholesale food market in the city. Beijing also banned outbound travel of high-risk people and suspended some transportation services out of the city.


Reuters 16 June

Some collateral from Associated Press item here:

Beijing expands lockdowns as cases top 100 in new outbreak


BEIJING (AP) — Chinese authorities locked down a third neighborhood in Beijing on Tuesday as they rushed to prevent the spread of a new coronavirus outbreak that has infected more than 100 people in a country that appeared to have largely contained the virus.

The resurgence in China highlighted public health expert calls for vigilance as many nations move forward with easing virus restrictions to revive their economies.


New Zealand, which hadn’t seen a new case in three weeks, said it is investigating a case in which two women who flew in from London to see a dying parent were allowed to leave quarantine and drive halfway across the country before they were tested and found to be positive.

And the Philippines reimposed a strict lockdown on the city of Cebu after a rise in cases.


This from Bloomberg on Beijing's new spike in COVID19 cases:
LINK
 
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And is anyone surprised? For a communist regime, their globalised capitalist mindset is pretty impressive.

'Chinese manufacturers carried out a concerted campaign to flood the world market with fake face masks at the height of the coronavirus pandemic, De Tijd has revealed.

'The paper reveals that importers were the first to be taken in by unscrupulous manufacturers in China, who stopped at nothing to convince them to buy masks, including fake certificates and even hand-stencilled EU approval signs. When the coronavirus Covid-19 pandemic began to spread across the world, many administrations were caught unawares. Not least in Belgium, where the health ministry had recently destroyed a strategic stock of personal protective equipment (PPE) because it was too old.

'When the need for huge amounts of PPE suddenly became clear, there was nothing in stock. And as other countries found themselves in a similar position, the industry suddenly became a seller’s market, as demand outstripped supply. The route was open for unscrupulous manufacturers to move in and win contracts right and left, secure in the knowledge that the emergency situation would make purchasing authorities less vigilant.'


 
Seems the Chinese media don't like it up 'em. Well played SBS.

'A reporter for China’s Xinhua News Agency took exception to being filmed during Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s press conference at Parliament House.

'The reporter from the official state-run press agency for the People’s Republic of China had been listening in to Mr Morrison’s comments about Australia’s next steps in tackling the coronavirus pandemic on Friday afternoon. Footage captured by SBS shows the reporter, who is wearing a permanent media pass around her neck, reacting when she realises she is being filmed. She walks up to the camera and puts her hand over it. “Please don’t,” she says to the camera operator. Later, she is filmed leaving the Prime Minister’s courtyard on her own.

'SBS chief political correspondent Brett Mason reported members of China’s state-run media were “diligently photographing the assembled crowd but not pleased to be photographed themselves”.


 
Seems the Chinese media don't like it up 'em. Well played SBS.

'A reporter for China’s Xinhua News Agency took exception to being filmed during Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s press conference at Parliament House.

'The reporter from the official state-run press agency for the People’s Republic of China had been listening in to Mr Morrison’s comments about Australia’s next steps in tackling the coronavirus pandemic on Friday afternoon. Footage captured by SBS shows the reporter, who is wearing a permanent media pass around her neck, reacting when she realises she is being filmed. She walks up to the camera and puts her hand over it. “Please don’t,” she says to the camera operator. Later, she is filmed leaving the Prime Minister’s courtyard on her own.

'SBS chief political correspondent Brett Mason reported members of China’s state-run media were “diligently photographing the assembled crowd but not pleased to be photographed themselves”.


I've got more time for SBS than ABC.
 
Seems the Chinese media don't like it up 'em. Well played SBS.
They attract unwanted attention from a wide assortment of Tibetan and Uighur exiles as well as locally-grown fruitbats. It's hardly surprising she's not keen on compromising PERSEC.
 
Going back to the original 'question' of liability. The virus has now been confirmed (paper awaiting peer review) in Spain in March 2019. This isn't the first time that scientists have suggested that the virus may have been prevalent prior to the, currently, accepted timelines nor that earlier deaths may have been misdiagnosed as flu. It does also mean that it is possible that China was not the source but merely the first place in which the virus was identified.

It is disingenuous , with any virus, to place blame upon the country where it is discovered although it is, of course, politically expedient for many nations at the moment to do so.

 
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I find few differences between PRC and Nazism.
Seriously.
No differences as I can see, beyond the xternal trappings. It seems to walk more softly, but has the same aims and its a manifest destiny, right out of the 19th century and as such, its solutions are all on the road to war, just look at the farrago on the Indian Border, or its bullying of a mature democracy like australia.
 
Going back to the original 'question' of liability. The virus has now been confirmed (paper awaiting peer review) in Spain in March 2019. This isn't the time that scientists have suggested that the virus may have been prevalent prior to the, currently, accepted timelines nor that earlier deaths may have been misdiagnosed as flu. It does also mean that it is possible that China was not the source but merely the first place in which the virus was identified.

It is disingenuous , with any virus, to place blame upon the country where it is discovered although it is, of course, politically expedient for many nations at the moment to do so.

Quite happy to await peer review.

In the meantime, I put the blame 100 % on China and there is no political expediency involved in the way I have come to that opinion.
 
Quite happy to await peer review.

In the meantime, I put the blame 100 % on China and there is no political expediency involved in the way I have come to that opinion.
You can put blame on China for, possibly, suppressing information at the onset of the outbreak (although not for withholding scientific information since that time as they have been remarkably co-operative in that respect) but not for being the source of the outbreak, otherwise you might as well blame Sudan for Ebola, Malaysia for Nipah virus or Mexico for H1N1.
 
You can put blame on China for, possibly, suppressing information at the onset of the outbreak (although not for withholding scientific information since that time as they have been remarkably co-operative in that respect) but not for being the source of the outbreak, otherwise you might as well blame Sudan for Ebola, Malaysia for Nipah virus or Mexico for H1N1.
You can disagree with me all you like, I am not wrong though.
 
You can put blame on China for, possibly, suppressing information at the onset of the outbreak (although not for withholding scientific information since that time as they have been remarkably co-operative in that respect) but not for being the source of the outbreak, otherwise you might as well blame Sudan for Ebola, Malaysia for Nipah virus or Mexico for H1N1.
Thanks to the power of the Internet we know - 100% - where it first exploded, despite Chinas efforts to cover it up.

Now - while I quite accept that it could have started in Albania or Zanzibar ...... what is the statistical likelihood that someone from there just happened to become a) the first person in the world infected and b) develop a craving for a Pangolin Burger and rush out to buy an airline ticket to Wuhan ?

My money is still on China being guilty as hell until peer review proves me wrong.
 
You can put blame on China for, possibly, suppressing information at the onset of the outbreak (although not for withholding scientific information since that time as they have been remarkably co-operative in that respect) but not for being the source of the outbreak, otherwise you might as well blame Sudan for Ebola, Malaysia for Nipah virus or Mexico for H1N1.
They had to suppress info, to give themselves time to buy up all available PPE, worldwide.
 
You can disagree with me all you like, I am not wrong though.
Finding something in spain, does not denote its origins and I have absolutely no doubt, its origins were in China. Where the virus began in china is certainly an unknown, because china is never going to tell anybody lets be honest.

China is a fascist state and many western governments will have to accept reality, no matter how much we wish it not to be true. The reason why the west has been so slow, is its terrified of the implications and how far we've fallen into the rabbit hole and getting out involves effort and the expending of political capital which most democratic politicians hope that someone else will do the heavy lifting.
 
The CCP may well find it convenient at this time to continue ramping up tensions on the Sino-Indian border. This accomplishes a number of objectives.

When faced with internal problems that result in agitation of the population with government handling, an external threat is useful for diverting the populations attention elsewhere.

It will also present the world with the prospect of a border conflict between two of the worlds most populous nuclear armed nations that could quickly escalate, diverting their attentions from an enquiry into the possible culpability on the CCP in it’s failure to follow WHO protocols on the dissemination of information on possible global pandemics.

The suspected delays in passing on information, and of possible earlier knowledge of COVID 19 in 2019, the failure to institute travel controls, could well have exacerbated the following economic devastation suffered globally, and the CCP has acted extremely aggressively towards the various nations who have expressed the need for an enquiry.

China has Pakistan in an economic lock and may have already indicated this to India in the recent incidents along the Indo-Pakistani border. China’s extensive involvement in Pakistan ensures a quick avenue to opening up a second front in any war with India.

 

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