CHINA'S LIABILITY?

Tool

LE
I thought the BBC article was interesting but I'm confused. The good Dr allegedly had frozen swaps from the December patient which he has now tested for Covid19. Why would they have kept swabs from a patient in December who was displaying pneumonia symptoms? Seems odd to me.
AFAICR, Dr Crick (?) of DNA Nobel fame treated a patient in Portsmouth in the late 1950's. The patient, Royal Navy, had returned from West Africa with an unidentifiable illness. All his attempts failed, and the patient died. Crick took paraffin tissue samples. These were tested later against HIV/AIDS about 25 years later, and somewhere around 13 of the 17 tests proved positive. Perhaps the doctor in the report above was not convinced that this patient was a "normal" pneumonia patient?

*** Quick update - Crick was NOT involved, and the hospital was Manchester Royal Infirmary. The patient (Merchant Navy 1955-1957) did not die from AIDS - or there is sufficient evidence to suggest cross-contamination and no AIDS in the tissue samples.
So, other than the patient didn't have AIDS, he was in the Belgian Congo and not Western Africa, the doctor was incorrect, the locale was out by a couple of 100 miles, the samples were restested 32 years later...
Here is a link to the story.

I guess that leaves the assumption that the patient in the quote above had something abnormal, hence the tissue samples being frozen.
 
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AFAICR, Dr Crick (?) of DNA Nobel fame treated a patient in Portsmouth in the late 1950's. The patient, Royal Navy, had returned from West Africa with an unidentifiable illness. All his attempts failed, and the patient died. Crick took paraffin tissue samples. These were tested later against HIV/AIDS about 25 years later, and somewhere around 13 of the 17 tests proved positive. Perhaps the doctor in the report above was not convinced that this patient was a "normal" pneumonia patient?
Possibly. The article says...

''Dr Cohen told the BBC that he had the idea to look back at all patients who had been in intensive care units with suspected pneumonia between 2 December and 16 January.

He found 14 patients who had tested negative for pneumonia. He defrosted their samples and tested them for traces of Covid-19. He said that out of the 14 samples, one tested positive for traces of Covid-19. A second test on that same sample also came back positive. He added that the patient's chest scan was also compatible with the symptoms of Covid-19.''

So maybe the samples were frozen because they thought something was amiss. Patients displaying pneumonia like symptoms but testing negative for pneumonia may be the motivator.
 
*** Quick update - Crick was NOT involved, and the hospital was Manchester Royal Infirmary. The patient (Merchant Navy 1955-1957) did not die from AIDS - or there is sufficient evidence to suggest cross-contamination and no AIDS in the tissue samples.
So, other than the patient didn't have AIDS, he was in the Belgian Congo and not Western Africa, the doctor was incorrect, the locale was out by a couple of 100 miles, the samples were restested 32 years later...
Here is a link to the story.

I guess that leaves the assumption that the patient in the quote above had something abnormal, hence the tissue samples being frozen.
Thanks for the link. The David Carr case is very interesting, as was the subsequent eff up and discovery.
 

Tool

LE
Thanks for the link. The David Carr case is very interesting, as was the subsequent eff up and discovery.
It sounds like the original tests were done with the best available tools in the lab at that time, and possibly under the best practices they could have. It just goes to prove that even the best can sometimes be wrong.
 

Yokel

LE
Is there really any possible doubt that the COVID-19 virus came from China? Surely the DNA sequence should give scientists all over the World information about similarity to to other viruses from that area?

Is this an effort to mislead the public - if so then is the target the rest of the World or the Chinese population?
 
sounds like ScoMos got the buggers rattled.
I hope Oz is steadfast enough to deal with the consequences and not cave in to the pressure.

'The Chinese government has threatened to slap Australian barley producers with tariffs of up to 80 per cent as relations between Beijing and Canberra continue to sour.

'China’s Ministry of Commerce has given the nation’s barley producers 10 days to respond to an anti-dumping investigation that’s been conducted into Australian grain imports since 2010. China has alleged that Australian farmers produced barley at a price lower than its “normal” level between 2014 and 2016, and is now considering two separate tariffs of 73.6 per cent and 6.9 per cent on Australian barley exported to China.

'Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said the move is deeply concerning and has “no justification”. He said the government is working with the Australian grains industry to mount the strongest possible case against China’s 18-month anti-dumping investigation. “Every country has a right to apply tariffs in relation to matters of dumping,” Senator Birmingham told reporters in Canberra on Sunday. “But we are quite clear and firm in our view that there is no justification to find that Australia’s farmers and barley producers are subsidised or are dumping their product in such ways.”


 
Step 2, with an Australian Government minister apparently soft-shoeing things.

'China has been accused of engaging in “a bastard act” after it banned Australian beef exports before appearing to link the move directly with Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s inquiry into COVID-19.

'Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian blamed the ban on violations of quarantine rules on Tuesday night, before promptly warning Australia it could face retaliation over the push for an investigation into the origins of the coronavirus. “Chinese customs has continuously found that multiple batches of beef products exported to China by individual Australian companies have violated the inspection and quarantine requirements,’’ he said. When asked by an Australian journalist if he was linking the beef ban and the inquiry, he replied, “I just made it very clear. They are two different things, you’re making a political interpretation”.

'But Liberal-Nationals MP George Christensen said it was clear enough what was going on. “It’s a bastard act,’’ he told news.com.au. “My understanding is it’s about a third of Australia’s meat exports to China. It’s just wrong. China has just gone into full, bullying, threatening, coercion mode. That’s what I think."

'The Queensland MP said China had questions to answer on the spread of the coronavirus. But rather than engage in a “tit for tat” diplomatic debate he urged Australia to use the Chinese-owned Port of Darwin as a bargaining chip. “There’s a lot of questions being raised now about the Port of Darwin,’’ he said. “There is a clear clause in it that says at any point in time it’s deemed to be a national security issue that contract is null and void. They are positioning themselves directly against us and against our national interests. Certainly, there are bargaining chips out there, like the Port of Darwin.”

'Earlier, Mr Christensen told Parliament: “We can keep giving into Communist China’s threats, or we can stand up for our sovereignty and our economic independence. With more than 36 per cent of our exports being sold to China, representing 7.9 per cent of our GDP, it’s clear we have put too many eggs in the one basket,’’ he said. “Being so entangled with an authoritarian regime has left our nation open to economic blackmail and boycotts like that mooted by China’s ambassador and the actions against our barley and beef exports.”

'Earlier, Trade Minister Simon Birmingham attempted to play down the issue. “Well, Australia’s not in any sort of war,’’ he said. “Our intention is to work as cooperatively as we can with our partners right across the region and the world, including in terms of the enhancement and growth of economic and trade relations. I think it is worth noting that right through the early months of this year, our export flows have continued to be at incredibly strong levels.”


 
And the other side of the coin, with a great way to gain competitive advantage (my bold).

'Chinese buyers are rushing back into the Australian property market as prices fall and the Australian dollar takes a beating due to the coronavirus crisis, industry experts say.

'Prices have fallen by around 10 per cent since the start of the crisis in some places, with some predicting falls of up to 30 per cent as unemployment rises into the double digits for the first time in decades. "A lot of the mainland Chinese are seeing this as an opportunity to exploit a great deal because that's what they're going to see in the property market in the next six months," real estate industry adviser Robert Klaric told Nine’s A Current Affair. “What we'll see is the wealthy mainland Chinese will look towards Australia now to secure their wealth, and secure their health.”

<snip>

'George Chmiel from Chinese property portal Juwai said inquiries from Chinese buyers only dipped 14 per cent in the first quarter, compared with 40 per cent for local buyers. "China is back in business much earlier than the rest of the world," Mr Chmiel told the programme.'


 
There are so many Covid-19/Wuhan Virus threads on ARRSE I am uncertain where to post an interesting paper I just read. It was produced by the US Congressional Research Service which (unsurprisingly) does research for members of Congress and various committees.

The US Naval Institute just published an article with a link to the paper of 50+ pages with a detailed summary of the chronology of all Corvid-19 events.

For those interested when who did what click here:
USNI article - Corvid Chronology
 
One to watch! Chinese 'insiders' turning whistle-blower against the regime by leaking information to the foreign press?

'Beijing claims that since the coronavirus pandemic began at the end of last year, there have been only 82,919 confirmed cases and 4,633 deaths in mainland China. Those numbers could be roughly accurate, and in that case a detailed account would be an important tool in judging the spread of the virus. But it’s also possible that the numbers presented to the rest of the world are vastly understated compared to Beijing’s private figures. The opaqueness and mistrust of outsiders in the Chinese Communist Party’s system makes it hard to judge—but learning more about the coronavirus data used directly by Chinese officials is invaluable for governments elsewhere.

'A dataset of coronavirus cases and deaths from the military’s National University of Defense Technology, leaked to Foreign Policy, offers insight into how Beijing has gathered coronavirus data on its population. The source of the leak, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of sharing Chinese military data, said that the data came from the university. The school publishes a data tracker for the coronavirus: The online version matches with the leaked information, except it is far less detailed—it shows just the map of cases, not the distinct data.

'The dataset, though it contains inconsistencies—and though it may not be comprehensive enough to contradict Beijing’s official numbers—is the most extensive dataset proved to exist about coronavirus cases in China. But more importantly, it can serve as a valuable trove of information for epidemiologists and public health experts around the globe—a dataset that Beijing has almost certainly not shared with U.S. officials or doctors. (The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did not immediately respond to requests for comment.)

'While not fully comprehensive, the data is incredibly rich: There are more than 640,000 updates of information, covering at least 230 cities—in other words, 640,000 rows purporting to show the number of cases in a specific location at the time the data was gathered. Each update includes the latitude, longitude, and “confirmed” number of cases at the location, for dates ranging from early February to late April.'


Full article - Leaked Chinese Virus Database Covers 230 Cities, 640,000 Updates
 
I hope the Chinks don't go the full 'Johnny Turk' and drop the PLA on the home counties. They might have to close the pubs early. Oh... hang on...
Please don't use racist terminology like, Chinks :oops:

Refer to them as, Logs instead :twisted:

(An official Marvel No Prize for anyone who gets that reference ;) ).
 
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