CHINA'S LIABILITY?

In politics, perception is everything. And so The Donald has to be seen to do something. He simply cannot allow his country to take this kind of damage, both in terms of death toll and what the lockdown is doing to the economy, without returning fire. It would be political suicide. Not least because a significant minority of his core support believe cold weather is just God's way to telling them to burn more crosses. Bubba and his sister/wife ain't gonna vote for an American President who backs down to Godless, yellow Commies.;)

I freely admit that my knowledge of Global Economics could be written on the back of a fag packet. But for all their wealth and power China are still second best to the USA, who can strike back in any number of inventively nasty ways. For example, there was already considerable American disquiet regarding Huawai providing 5G for the UK. Expect that to be ramped in the next few months. To the point of American agencies threatening to no longer share intelligence with any country that does business with Huawai.
Try removing assets from the the U.K., vetting all British investments into the US economy, limiting your access to our financial sector. The displeasure pre COVID-19 was real, the fury afterwards will be epic. Now is not the time to be seen as China’s best friend. The China Hawks will be in control now, and things will be a changing.
 

triggerigger

War Hero
Im always minded of the Japanese Americans in WW2 and the Chinese USMC officer who got the CMoH in Korea
A man can't change his genes, but he can choose his flag.
Agreed. But too many flag of convenience "citizens" has left many nations with a 5th column of ' foreign "citizens" ' who have no loyalty or even actively despise the culture of their convenience and seek to change swamp or subjugate it from within. Much like the libtards fleeing California for Texas and trying to turn it into the shithole they fled.
F.I.O.F.O
 
Does the USA want China to buy its debt and buy it's goods? If the answer is yes, it probably isn't going to punish it.
He (and everyone else) might blame the Chinese as the Chinese don't vote in US election, but blaming someone and punishing them are two different things.
At the end of the day, these are proving to be national security issues which puts a slightly different slant on it. Whilst it may not be biological warfare, the effect is the same, which is it has brought economies to a standstill. National security has to be a serious consideration post Covid-19. I can see the US being very 'protectionist' moving forwards. Trump has already torn a leaf out of Calvin Coolidge's book - he will probably be more entrenched in protecting the US' ability to be completely independent of any other nation's goods and services.
 
I'm not pretending anything of the sort. I couldn't care less what the Chinese do to their own citizens. The moment China's actions began to adversely effect real people - or even Italians and Spaniards ;) - it became a whole different ball game.

The PRC does need to be punished, but the UK's ability to do so is severely limited. America is another matter; with Trump facing a tough fight for a second term, he cannot afford to be seen as soft on a nation that has caused such damage to the USA. He'll be looking to shift blame and redirect any anger over his handling of the crisis against the Chinese themselves. Expect much of the election to be fought on who can be trusted to defend America against the threat posed by the Chinese.

The War on Terror is old news. China just became the new Boogyman.
Whilst they may be the originators of the current strain of Covid-19, this is about global economics and if you trace back to the 1980's you will see the rise of the tiger economies starting. They were responsible for the demise of our ship building industry for example. The Tyne, the Wear and the Clyde used to account for about 90% of the worlds shipping tonnage - they are all model boat ponds now with little private marinas.. The shift of manufacturing capability has plodded on steadily for the last 40 years. Reversing that will not happen over night. There will be a lot of whinging, but very little will change in the rest of the developed world, with the exception of the US which as I said previously I'd expect to become more protectionist that they already are.
 
Try removing assets from the the U.K., vetting all British investments into the US economy, limiting your access to our financial sector. The displeasure pre COVID-19 was real, the fury afterwards will be epic. Now is not the time to be seen as China’s best friend. The China Hawks will be in control now, and things will be a changing.
If Trump was Merkel your head would be exploding.
 
Anyone who still thinks America will just shrug and let China off the hook after todays estimates is living in a fantasy.

No American President could shrug off 250,00 - 2,000,000 deaths of US citizens with fingers that points 4 square at Chinas total culpability.
 
At the end of the day, these are proving to be national security issues which puts a slightly different slant on it. Whilst it may not be biological warfare, the effect is the same, which is it has brought economies to a standstill. National security has to be a serious consideration post Covid-19. I can see the US being very 'protectionist' moving forwards. Trump has already torn a leaf out of Calvin Coolidge's book - he will probably be more entrenched in protecting the US' ability to be completely independent of any other nation's goods and services.

At the end of the day, money talks.

If a country can be independent of any other nations goods and services, then good luck to them, the USA (Like most countries) is not even close. It would take far more than Trumps next term (if he wins again) for that to change.
 
Anyone who still thinks America will just shrug and let China off the hook after todays estimates is living in a fantasy.

No American President could shrug off 250,00 - 2,000,000 deaths of US citizens with fingers that points 4 square at Chinas total culpability.
The yanks lose 10s of thousands of people to flu every year, have you seen them trying to track down the origin so they can blame other countries?
Currently the democrats and republicans are all shouting at each other over whose fault the hospitals are in clip order.
They might blame China in the future, particularly if Trump wins but will do very little on the action front.
 
Whilst they may be the originators of the current strain of Covid-19, this is about global economics and if you trace back to the 1980's you will see the rise of the tiger economies starting. They were responsible for the demise of our ship building industry for example. The Tyne, the Wear and the Clyde used to account for about 90% of the worlds shipping tonnage - they are all model boat ponds now with little private marinas.. The shift of manufacturing capability has plodded on steadily for the last 40 years. Reversing that will not happen over night. There will be a lot of whinging, but very little will change in the rest of the developed world, with the exception of the US which as I said previously I'd expect to become more protectionist that they already are.
People buying ships have a choice of paying western wages (and caring about health and safety and things like that) or it can find a cheaper country and not worry if the occasional worker falls to his death.
America will still want to export its goods to other countries, its a bit hard to do that when those countries do like for like protectionist retaliation.
Of course if it wasn't 23 trillion+ in debt (probably 26 Trillion at the end of this Covid 19 issue) it would be in a far stronger position, as it isn't it will just have to put up with it.
 

Yokel

LE
Whilst they may be the originators of the current strain of Covid-19, this is about global economics and if you trace back to the 1980's you will see the rise of the tiger economies starting. They were responsible for the demise of our ship building industry for example. The Tyne, the Wear and the Clyde used to account for about 90% of the worlds shipping tonnage - they are all model boat ponds now with little private marinas.. The shift of manufacturing capability has plodded on steadily for the last 40 years. Reversing that will not happen over night. There will be a lot of whinging, but very little will change in the rest of the developed world, with the exception of the US which as I said previously I'd expect to become more protectionist that they already are.
The decline of Western manufacturing went back further than that. After the Second World War manufacturing in the UK and US tried to go back to the way things were done in the pre War days. The wartime innovators were shoved out of the way - and often sent to help rebuild Germany and Japan. The issue of Quality was ignored, and the unions and management took delight in having set piece arguments with one another.

See my two threads:

Manufacturing in the UK

Commercial shipbuilding - why not in the UK?
 
People buying ships have a choice of paying western wages (and caring about health and safety and things like that) or it can find a cheaper country and not worry if the occasional worker falls to his death.
America will still want to export its goods to other countries, its a bit hard to do that when those countries do like for like protectionist retaliation.
Of course if it wasn't 23 trillion+ in debt (probably 26 Trillion at the end of this Covid 19 issue) it would be in a far stronger position, as it isn't it will just have to put up with it.
You are still stuck in a post 11-9 world.


Life is a changing, try to keep up Stacker.
 
They were responsible for the demise of our ship building industry for example.
Not entirely Simmy. Right up to the end the ships built on the Clyde, were still one of the best in the world. Trouble with that was, it wasn't what the customer wanted or wanted to pay. Our rivals, Japan, were giving them what they wanted, cheap ships with no frills that could be run into the deck and make more profit because of it's low cost. They made them like a production line of cars, x/y/ or z tonnage, take it or leave it. They took it.

Another stumbling block was our workers, who didn't like/want change. I watched a documentary many years ago about Fairfields(?) in Govan. To try and stop it going down the pan, management had brought in people to study what was happening and how to fix it. I can only remember one incident from the programme, probably because of it being so wasteful. It was the draughtsmen who were at fault. On the plan view they drew where the lifeboats would be, fine. They then drew a dotted line on every deck until they reached the double bottom! Same with the portholes. On the outside, then dotted on every bulkhead to the middle one. They not only drew a stool, for the navigator, they drew the shadow of it! WTF!! Things started to improve, but when the old ways started to creep in, management were told any more and we're off. It didn't, off they went, and down the Swanee it jolly well went.

I had a mate who worked on Rover cars. He told me if I bought one, to get the 1400 engine, as opposed to the 1600, or the other way round, irrelevant. The point is he was telling me to get the one where the engine was made in Japan, as that had no oil leaks. The other engine was made here, and no Brownie points for guessing it leaked
 
Try removing assets from the the U.K., vetting all British investments into the US economy, limiting your access to our financial sector. The displeasure pre COVID-19 was real, the fury afterwards will be epic. Now is not the time to be seen as China’s best friend. The China Hawks will be in control now, and things will be a changing.
Wot you mean reality strikes in relation to how Money Laundering regs should really work. My bold In that respect Europe is well and truly screwed were that to come to fruition-sorry fruitation. Point is US Hawks are gonna need friends with respect to an anti China alliance and coming down hard is not gonna be the best way to influence people. After all America made hay after both World wars and nobody has forgotten. I still say the lynchpin is Russia.
 
Wot you mean reality strikes in relation to how Money Laundering regs should really work. My bold In that respect Europe is well and truly screwed were that to come to fruition-sorry fruitation. Point is US Hawks are gonna need friends with respect to an anti China alliance and coming down hard is not gonna be the best way to influence people. After all America made hay after both World wars and nobody has forgotten. I still say the lynchpin is Russia.
The point being if you are not viewed as a friend, then what use are you and what kind of relationship should be had with you?
 
Not entirely Simmy. Right up to the end the ships built on the Clyde, were still one of the best in the world. Trouble with that was, it wasn't what the customer wanted or wanted to pay. Our rivals, Japan, were giving them what they wanted, cheap ships with no frills that could be run into the deck and make more profit because of it's low cost. They made them like a production line of cars, x/y/ or z tonnage, take it or leave it. They took it.

Another stumbling block was our workers, who didn't like/want change. I watched a documentary many years ago about Fairfields(?) in Govan. To try and stop it going down the pan, management had brought in people to study what was happening and how to fix it. I can only remember one incident from the programme, probably because of it being so wasteful. It was the draughtsmen who were at fault. On the plan view they drew where the lifeboats would be, fine. They then drew a dotted line on every deck until they reached the double bottom! Same with the portholes. On the outside, then dotted on every bulkhead to the middle one. They not only drew a stool, for the navigator, they drew the shadow of it! WTF!! Things started to improve, but when the old ways started to creep in, management were told any more and we're off. It didn't, off they went, and down the Swanee it jolly well went.

I had a mate who worked on Rover cars. He told me if I bought one, to get the 1400 engine, as opposed to the 1600, or the other way round, irrelevant. The point is he was telling me to get the one where the engine was made in Japan, as that had no oil leaks. The other engine was made here, and no Brownie points for guessing it leaked
we couldn’t compete on cost - hence the observation on them being responsible for the demise of the ship building industry. Lack of flexibility by striking a workforce didn’t help.

The problem you have is once the skills are gone you can never get them back. Land Rover don’t have the capability to design and build military vehicles anymore. Once the skills are gone they are gone.
 
The decline of Western manufacturing went back further than that. After the Second World War manufacturing in the UK and US tried to go back to the way things were done in the pre War days. The wartime innovators were shoved out of the way - and often sent to help rebuild Germany and Japan. The issue of Quality was ignored, and the unions and management took delight in having set piece arguments with one another.

See my two threads:

Manufacturing in the UK

Commercial shipbuilding - why not in the UK?
it did but then 80s were the final nail in the coffin
 
The yanks lose 10s of thousands of people to flu every year, have you seen them trying to track down the origin so they can blame other countries?

It might be interesting if they did. They could start with Spanish Flu. Then they could hold the country where the first recorded case was, to account
 

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