Chinas foreign secret service is among the most aggressive

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2008021...80211230754;_ylt=Aj.5_SefUwiwIRX1WS5J4i6QOrgF

A US defense official, an ex-Boeing engineer and two others were arrested Monday on charges of spying for China involving sensitive military and aerospace secrets, including the space shuttle.

Pentagon official Gregg William Bergersen, Chinese citizen Yu Xin Kang and Taiwan-born US citizen Tai Shen Kuo were held for allegedly passing classified information to China
...
Assistant US Attorney General Kenneth Wainstein told reporters.

"Such espionage networks pose a grave danger to our national security and to our economic position in the world,"
...
China's foreign secret service was among the "most aggressive" in trying to steal sensitive US military technology and information, Wainstein noted.

Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell charged recently that Chinese and Russian spies were stalking the United States at levels close to those seen during the tense covert espionage duels of the Cold War.
 
#2
As is Russia's, according to your own source. Are you too modest to blow your own side's trumpet?
 
#4
Bat_Crab said:
In other news:

China's bears "likely to sh1t in woods".
Pope "Is: Catholic, is not: a chinese agent".
No, his ODESSA membeship is valid for life
 
#7
China loves a bit of espionage...remember Farnborough about fifteen years ago? Very embarrassing indeed...
 
#8
Bat_Crab said:
In other news:

China's bears "likely to sh1t in woods".
Pope "Is: Catholic, is not: a chinese agent".
Couldn't of put it more eloquently myself :wink:

Cuddles said:
China loves a bit of espionage...remember Farnborough about fifteen years ago? Very embarrassing indeed...
Every country that can do it, does do it.
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#9
Is the local Chinky now OOB :?

Does "Made in China" mean "might contain bug - don't speak about stuff near your microwave" :?
 
#10
Which really begs the question, what are WE spying on inside Chinkland?

Anything worth a buchas? Anything at all??!
 
#11
jonwilly said:
Gents even Friends spy on Friends.
Yep, I can remember reading quite a few years back about how we'd go out of our way to recruit sources in organisations like the Banque de France and Bundesbank so that we could obtain advance warning of any possible changes in economic policy before they were publicly announced and act accordingly. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we've carried on the tradition in places like the European Central Bank.
 
#12
In-Limbo said:
Which really begs the question, what are WE spying on inside Chinkland?

Anything worth a buchas? Anything at all??!
At a guess? Their space programme, anti-satellite capability, deep-water navy (particular emphasis on submarines and amphibious assets), ballistic missile systems, air force, radar & ECM, military and military-applicable industries, ORBAT, doctrine, readiness, logistic capabilities and infrastructure.

Oh, and we'd probably want to know about political intent, economic capacity and whether or not the recent bad weather will mean lots of starving Chinese eyeing up their neighbours' harvests.

What's with constantly trying to make out PRC are just a bunch of backward peasants?
 
#13
smartascarrots said:
In-Limbo said:
Which really begs the question, what are WE spying on inside Chinkland?

Anything worth a buchas? Anything at all??!
At a guess? Their space programme, anti-satellite capability, deep-water navy (particular emphasis on submarines and amphibious assets), ballistic missile systems, air force, radar & ECM, military and military-applicable industries, ORBAT, doctrine, readiness, logistic capabilities and infrastructure.

Oh, and we'd probably want to know about political intent, economic capacity and whether or not the recent bad weather will mean lots of starving Chinese eyeing up their neighbours' harvests.

What's with constantly trying to make out PRC are just a bunch of backward peasants?
Peasants? Who you call Peasants? Oh you no cly! :)
 

Attachments

#14
Still doesn't answer the question. Did you catch someone wanking in your Peking Duck once?
 
#15
Remove dickies from China's arrse, and move on :D

You answered my question quite eloquently, and then fell aboot is if I was "wrong" to query what would could be gained by tasking some counter measures to their return to so called "cold war espionage levels"?

<shrug>

Deny everything when caught, cold war tactics 101, or perhaps they think their crap no so stinky? But then again eight nobel peace laureates seem to want to beg to differ rather than simply kow tow, so who knows.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/14/wchina114.xml
 
#16
In-Limbo said:
You… then fell aboot is if I was "wrong" to query what would could be gained by tasking some counter measures to their return to so called "cold war espionage levels"?
No, I didn't. I queried why you insist on sliding little digs like this into the conversation every time China’s mentioned:

In-Limbo said:
Anything worth a buchas? Anything at all??!
Suggesting there couldn’t possibly be anything. Par for the course in the NAAFI Bar, but it doesn’t bring much to CA. It ain’t the first time, either.

To bring a less quarrelsome tone back to proceedings

In-Limbo said:
But then again eight nobel peace laureates seem to want to beg to differ rather than simply kow tow, so who knows.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/14/wchina114.xml
Glad to see some principles being held to somewhere in dealings with PRC seeing as our own politicians seem to scramble over each other in their bids for gelt. I don’t see it achieving much; China needs Sudanese oil far more than the good wishes of Nobel Laureates, but if the pressure is kept up in the run-up to the Olympics, you never know what small concessions might be wrung to save face. Tesco politics – every little helps.

Steven Spielberg, though. What a plum. If he’d spoken up even about Tibet let alone what the bastards do to their own folk, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. As it is, it’s just another Hollywood cause du jour. He’ll not even remember it in a year, the cunt.
 
#17
smartascarrots said:
In-Limbo said:
You… then fell aboot is if I was "wrong" to query what would could be gained by tasking some counter measures to their return to so called "cold war espionage levels"?
No, I didn't. I queried why you insist on sliding little digs like this into the conversation every time China’s mentioned.
To get a bite from China spooks? <shrug>

In-Limbo said:
Anything worth a buchas? Anything at all??!
Suggesting there couldn't possibly be anything. Par for the course in the NAAFI Bar, but it doesn't bring much to CA. It ain’t the first time, either.
smartascarrots said:
Still doesn't answer the question. Did you catch someone wanking in your Peking Duck once?
Guilty as charged m'laud. ;)

smartascarrots said:
To bring a less quarrelsome tone back to proceedings

In-Limbo said:
But then again eight nobel peace laureates seem to want to beg to differ rather than simply kow tow, so who knows.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/14/wchina114.xml
Glad to see some principles being held to somewhere in dealings with PRC seeing as our own politicians seem to scramble over each other in their bids for gelt. I don't see it achieving much; China needs Sudanese oil far more than the good wishes of Nobel Laureates, but if the pressure is kept up in the run-up to the Olympics, you never know what small concessions might be wrung to save face. Tesco politics – every little helps.

Steven Spielberg, though. What a plum. If he'd spoken up even about Tibet let alone what the bastards do to their own folk, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. As it is, it’s just another Hollywood cause [I'd jour[/i]. He'll not even remember it in a year, the cunt.
Indeed, lets. I agree Spielberg is a plum of the highest order, particularly as he's out of his depth here, but one should perhaps fight from corner with a cult of personality, against another cult of personality?

Darfur aside for a moment, this is perhaps of more direct relevance to China's... err...

"Idiom"?...

Yes, thank you China's Idiom... with it's regard of international opinion, up until the point it might actually get caught.

According to a June 13 report in the Beijing Daily more than 400 parents, mainly from Henan, posted an Internet appeal for help in rescuing children who had been abducted from the precincts of train and bus stations and sold into slave-like conditions in brick factories in Shanxi. The parents said they had spent all their money and risked their lives to travel through remote areas of Shanxi looking for their children, the youngest of whom was only eight. They managed to rescue about 40 children but believed that many remained in conditions of forced servitude.

http://www.chinadevelopmentbrief.com/node/1152
Ergo, I wouldn't put it past China to have such an aggressive stance on something as paltry as state driven espionage, when the muted sounds coming from within suggest there are quite a bit more than a few kids who've been abducted simply to up their perceived "ranking" on the international stage.

Kind of put's my wee China digs into some perspective.
 
#18
In-Limbo said:
Darfur aside for a moment, this is perhaps of more direct relevance to China's... err...

"Idiom"?...

Yes, thank you China's Idiom... with it's regard of international opinion, up until the point it might actually get caught.

According to a June 13 report in the Beijing Daily more than 400 parents, mainly from Henan, posted an Internet appeal for help in rescuing children who had been abducted from the precincts of train and bus stations and sold into slave-like conditions in brick factories in Shanxi. The parents said they had spent all their money and risked their lives to travel through remote areas of Shanxi looking for their children, the youngest of whom was only eight. They managed to rescue about 40 children but believed that many remained in conditions of forced servitude.

http://www.chinadevelopmentbrief.com/node/1152
Ergo, I wouldn't put it past China to have such an aggressive stance on something as paltry as state driven espionage, when the muted sounds coming from within suggest there are quite a bit more than a few kids who've been abducted simply to up their perceived "ranking" on the international stage.

Kind of put's my wee China digs into some perspective.
Now you've lost me. Are you suggesting this is State policy? Given the outrage this raised against the Party at a time when they've more than enough discontent to cope with, it's unlikely. Personal corruption backed up by good political connections are usually at the root of these things. When they become public, the guilty parties end up meeting Mr 9mm very briefly while their patrons are reshuffled waiting the next shift in the Beijing power balance.

The CPC is a truly obscene thing and you really have to see what its rule does to ordinary folk to fully appreciate the hum-drum day-to-day horror of it. That doesn't have anything to do with the technological capabilities of the Chinese nation, nor for that matter, it's technological or human potential.
 
#19
Is it state policy? Absolutely.

http://www.laogai.org/hdbook/hb_intro.htm

Some Extracts:

The camps are also an integral part of China’s national economy.

Most Laogai camps have two names: a public name (usually an enterprise name), and an internal administrative name (usually a number). "Hangzhou Wulin Machine Works"

"There is an end to Laogai, but Jiuye (forced job placement) is forever"
Parents are encouraged to report unruly, lazy children to the PSB for incarceration. People are confined in jiuye or forced job placement (FJP) enterprises.

Ergo it's hardly a stretch of anyone's imagination when 400 parents launch an appeal online, which inevitably leaked out through their control net, in order to recover their children, that someone, somewhere issued the edict to round up their school kids for a stint of jiuye.

If the international community care to make enough noise about it, i'm sure the PRC will indeed find some minor insubordinate to execute to placate the masses.

Now back to the point on China's "aggressive" espionage policy, I do percieve there is more than a grain of truth to it. However to use a more accurate description, i'd put it as blatantly nonchalant:

Observe one of their many manuals:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/china/docs/sources.html

They didn't even bother to classify it, a red book on state spying techniques straight into the public domain, relying on the now tried and tested notions of achieving any means to an ends, by the reach of critical mass.
 
#20
Oh, come on! Now you're stretching.

FAS - Federation of American Scientists

The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) was founded in 1945 by scientists who had worked on the Manhattan Project to develop the first atomic bombs. These scientists recognized that science had become central to many key public policy questions. They believed that scientists had a unique responsibility to both warn the public and policy leaders of potential dangers from scientific and technical advances and to show how good policy could increase the benefits of new scientific knowledge.
Doesn't say anywhere that they're intelligence analysts or human rights campaigners. If you're looking for dirt on the PRCs espionage campaigns or appalling human rights record to chuck in their faces, you could have at least linked to CIA or MI6 for the first and Amnesty or Deathwatch International for the second. They've more than enough evidence and it's as close to verified as you're going to get out of China.

As for your Laogai Handbook, I noticed one glaring error right away.

Almost everyone in China is related to or knows someone who has served a lengthy sentence in a Laogai camp.
Not according to my missus or her family they don't. It's always hearsay and a bloke from the next village but one. There's plenty of stuff from reputable sources about PRCs harsh regime prisons, this sort of thing doesn't help the argument in the slightest.

God knows why, but you seem to be under the assumption I'm some kind of defender of or apologist for the PRC ruling caste. Don't confuse a fondness and admiration for a people with anything other than loathing for the regime that controls them. My beef is that by your snippy, trivialising little remarks you make them seem objects of humour, to be laughed at rather than opposed at every turn.

They're no laughing matter; they're corrupt, brutal, arbitrary and damned dangerous. If they aren't taken seriously and opposed with hard fact and reliable evidence, they'll continue to get away with it.
 

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