China to the rescue????

#1
In todays news, apparently China is set to bail out the Eurozone and most specifically Greece.

Eurozone relief as China pledges debt bailout - Telegraph

I'll be honest I didn't see it coming probably because I don't know massive amounts of the politics behind this but I can understand some of the reasons why China has done it.

Whats peoples opinion of this Chinese bailout, Is Beijing trying to increase the net of influenece or is it genuinly trying to open doors and become bezzers with the west?


Mods if this has been done already feel free to delete.
 
#2
I think China has a lot of money tied up in the Euro does it not?
Presumably China will lose a whole bif heap of money if the Euro goes tits up?
 
#3
What are the chances of China or Russia attempting to aquire a Greek port for one of their fleets?

"Give us a place to park our ships for the next hundred years Stavros; we'll bail you out of this financial crisis, redevelop the whole port and our sailors and dependents will put loads of money into your local economy. We'll also protect you from those nasty Turks..."

Bearing in mind that Russia already tried to negotiate the use of a Syrian port.
 
#4
The Chinese are picking up where the bankers are unwilling or unable to invest. This is just the same deal on a national level. The Chinese dont want to be "the workshop of the world" they want to own capital and big business instead of being subbed out to them.Basicly they want to box clever as well as hard.
 
#5
Well they have the funds to back it up don't they I heard they bailed out some American institutes as well. Someone said that if they are bailing out Europe and American they can hardley be criticized.

Maybe Greece will finally turn red ( but at least it won't be in the red)
 
#6
Well they have the funds to back it up don't they I heard they bailed out some American institutes as well. Someone said that if they are bailing out Europe and American they can hardley be criticized.

Maybe Greece will finally turn red ( but at least it won't be in the red)
I can seriously see the next big war coming from this direction.
 
#8
I can seriously see the next big war coming from this direction.
I think the Chinese will push the economic agenda before they try military conquest. I was watching a program the other day which stated that actually Chinas economical might is actually quite inflexible and are still limited to mostly lower end quality goods.
 
#9
The Chinese don't make a lot of stupid mistakes, and they play the long game. If they are going to bail out Greece, you can be sure they expect a damn good return on their investment sometime in the future.

Fair play to them; I wish the UK could still play at that level, but the Good Old Days are gone forever.
 
#10
I think the Chinese will push the economic agenda before they try military conquest. I was watching a program the other day which stated that actually Chinas economical might is actually quite inflexible and are still limited to mostly lower end quality goods.
well yes, but as the west gets poorer we will buy more cheapy stuff not less. Also, do you think the Chinese want to be seen as cheap and nasty ? of course not, they want brand image etc and the mark of quality... which is why their investors are buying out western firms, more for the marketing than the production I suspect.

As Werewolf has said they are in it for the long game... ie whats true today wont be for tommorrow.
 
#11
The yellow peril is back,,,Sax Rohmer warned us all, Fu Manchu will never die.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
What are the chances of China or Russia attempting to aquire a Greek port for one of their fleets?

"Give us a place to park our ships for the next hundred years Stavros; we'll bail you out of this financial crisis, redevelop the whole port and our sailors and dependents will put loads of money into your local economy. We'll also protect you from those nasty Turks..."

Bearing in mind that Russia already tried to negotiate the use of a Syrian port.
Remember reading a few months back that Chinese firms had been making enquireies about buying at least one, possibly several Greek deep water ports (the western end of there "String of Pearls"?) but things had been suspiciously quiet ever since. As the majority of Greek deepwater ports are state owned I believe (and therefore unionised like British industry was in the 1970s) I suspect the aquisition was being blocked, delayed and kicked round in circles. If the chinese are using the sovereign debt crisis to further their own long-term strategic/ecconomic goals then fair credit to them for having the ruthlessness and foresight to see it through.
 
#14
well yes, but as the west gets poorer we will buy more cheapy stuff not less. Also, do you think the Chinese want to be seen as cheap and nasty ? of course not, they want brand image etc and the mark of quality... which is why their investors are buying out western firms, more for the marketing than the production I suspect.

As Werewolf has said they are in it for the long game... ie whats true today wont be for tommorrow.

True but what implications will thing growth and demand have in China as well? Will an increase in consumer demand and global awarness through trade links have political implications for the Chinese government? I'm not saying it will, just want opinions.
 
#15
well yes, but as the west gets poorer we will buy more cheapy stuff not less. Also, do you think the Chinese want to be seen as cheap and nasty ? of course not, they want brand image etc and the mark of quality... which is why their investors are buying out western firms, more for the marketing than the production I suspect.

As Werewolf has said they are in it for the long game... ie whats true today wont be for tommorrow.
Even Mrs Jagman has noticed the profusion of adverts for "designed and engineered" in Britain products, everbody knows that it really means the product is made in China from shite!
Doesn't matter how well designed something is when its manufactured from very poor quality materials and of very poor build quality.
 
#16
The Chinese goverment/businessmen will probably end up owning the EUSSR Land. Then the Secret Marxists and Euro-Socialist Brotherhoods will turn it into the new Roman Empire of Soviets Europe. Oh I do like a good conspriracy.....
 
#17
I think China has a lot of money tied up in the Euro does it not?
Presumably China will lose a whole bif heap of money if the Euro goes tits up?
It isn't new, they've been propping up the Euro since the latest financial collapse began. It's a combination of different things with the one main driver: stability within the international financial system.

The EU is their single biggest trading partner - a market for their manufactures and a source for the high-tech goods and know-how their domestic industries need. They keep Greece afloat to keep Germany and France afloat; and to keep the Euro as a meaningful alternative to the US Dollar so that their foreign exchange eggs aren't all in the one basket.
 
#18
#19
The Chinese want to control the planet and and they are well on their way to succeeding although it may take a while.

For example: Chinese seismic survey is the cheapest in the world and... it is crap, but it can be made to be OK if the client is on top of them. So most of the western survey companies now use the likes of e.g. BGP, or Sinopec as a survey contractor. What China gets out of it is a detailed record of the oil, gas and mineral esources of all the countries that they have surveyed.

I worked for Sinopec a couple of years ago in Iran and I can say that Sinopec wasn't really interested in developing the Yadavaran oil field in partnership with Irans Pedec, they just wanted to know how an oil field was developed so they could do it elsewhere, but to Western standards as opposed to Iranian standards.

Someone posted something above to the effect that China builds / makes western designed goods to a shoddy standard. Yes they do. Some cheap copies of things. But the truth is that they mainly make stuff under licence for the west, in factories and with production lines designed by the west, with materials and product designs provided by the west.

But this wont always be the case.
 
#20
I think the Chinese will push the economic agenda before they try military conquest. I was watching a program the other day which stated that actually Chinas economical might is actually quite inflexible and are still limited to mostly lower end quality goods.
It depends on what you mean by lower end. The Guangzhou textile industry is already suffering badly from an inability to recruit workers. The short-term dip caused by the 2008 recession meant a lot of the migrant workers were left without jobs but with state support to retrain, buy land back home and set up their own small businesses. Not only did the state government have cash to hand which it could use for loans and grants, it was able to pressure provincial governments into spending their revenue (provincial governments control a massive whack of national income compared to Beijing, although a number of reforms are addressing that) on their people rather than a 'too big to fail[SUP]TM' [/SUP]business sector.

They are making massive efforts to move up the value-added chain and you will be hard pressed to find anything high-tech these days that doesn’t have ‘Made in China’ in it somewhere. Only a mug would believe that the skills involved in producing that aren’t going to cross over into indigenous industries simply by normal movement of staff, leaving aside the harvest from industrial espionage.

As far as “China’s economical might”, I think it’s safe to say they have two different facets to their economy. The internal market is truly, mind-bogglingly, nothing-else-quite-like-it-anywhere huge. It’s not just a fact of raw population numbers, the cultural coordination of effort multiplies the effect of those numbers in a way that’s incredibly hard to get your mind around until you see it. When the Qianlong Emperor told MacCartney that there was nothing from outside that the Qing Empire needed, that wasn’t just idle boasting – it was a straightforward statement of objective reality. The external dimension of economics is a nice-to-have and not a necessity-for-survival. Similarly, when ‘reform and opening’ was first put into effect, for a variety of political reasons the emphasis was placed on FDI as the driver when in reality the majority of the investment that built Guangdong into a manufacturing powerhouse came from interior provinces that hadn’t been allowed SEZ status and not from foreigners.

The external “economical might” is used for political/diplomatic advantage because it can be. A continuous theme in ‘Chinese’ diplomatic activity from Imperial times onward is that there is no such thing as an end-game, only a state of affairs that are satisfactory/unsatisfactory for the time being and a series of forces that will change today’s state of affairs into something else. That’s why they have a reputation for playing the long-game: as far as they’re concerned, there’s no other type of game and any suggestion that there might be is a ludicrous denial of the nature of the world.
 

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