China - Intelligence Operations

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#1
I am aware that there are many threads running on China and I hesitate to open a new one. So Mods, do feel free to re-allocate this thread as you think appropriate.

But I was struck recently how ignorant I was of China's spook ops. Seems probable that Mr Joe Omnibus is probably equally unsighted, though less interested.

Two aspects from recent reading:

One - China's equivalent of the FSB.

https://fas.org/irp/world/china/mss/history.htm

Jia Chunwang was appointed Minister of State Security in 1985, following the dismissal of Lin Yun. Both the public security and central investigation elements of the Ministry insisted that Lin Yun be replaced by one of their own cadres. To settle this conflict, the CPC leadership appointed Jia Chunwang, as he was an outsider with ties to neither element.

Chinese intelligence agents are generally assigned to overseas postings for terms of six years, 10 years, or long-term residence depending on the nature of the job or on performance. In mid-September 1996, the Central Military Commission and the State Council approved the report of the plan drawn up by the General Staff Department and Ministry of State Security on the consolidation, readjustment, and reinforcement of intelligence in Hong Kong, Macao, and abroad. Nearly 120 intelligence agents who had been operating in the United States, Canada, Western Europe, Northern Europe, and Japan as industrialists, businessmen, bankers, scholars, and journalists, were recalled.



Current Minister for State Security:

Chen Wenqing (Chinese: 陈文清; pinyin: Chēn Wénqīng; born January 1960) is a Chinese politician currently serving as the Minister of State Security of the People's Republic of China.[1] Previously, he was the minister of the Deputy Secretary of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection (CCDI), the Communist Party's top anti-graft body, a member of the CCDI Standing Committee.

Operation Autumn Orchard, Hong Kong
Source

' The GUOANBU - China's version of the FSB, set up dummy workers organisations established banks and an shipping companies, built up a database on the political allegiances of the adult population.

The Xinhua News Agency provided cover from a base near the Happy Valley Racecourse. Informers were recruited in the Royal Hong Kong Police, British telexes and phone calls were intercepted. When the Brits moved out, the Chinese army moved in. The first thing the soldiers did when they took over the Prince of Wales barracks was to sweep it for bugs.

Two - State surveillance techniques

Helpful video on how the Chinese state approaches keeping tabs on 13M people in Sinkiang Province ( apart from putting 996.000 in << re-education Camps >> )



Food for thought....when you dine with the devil, use a long spoon.....
 
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#2
And not just spying at home

Allegedly Chinese drone manufacturers have been collecting data on sensitive areas abroad according to Homeland Security

All those cheap drones flooding the market, provide good insight into their competitors, DJI being one that is alleged to be part of it
 
#3
The Chinese are well placed to spy on the West. Just look at the number of Chinatowns around the world. A readymade support network. Considering most expat Chinese have relatives back in China, the PRC intelligence agencies can always screw the nut to get overseas expats to provide logistical support to agents.

I remember talking to an FBI agent in HK (pre-1997). He told me the PRC intelligence agencies targeted Taiwanese and Hong Kongers. Aim being to feed them into the US university system, get them into MIT and then the US defence sector. Play the long game to acquire defence tech.
 
#4
If you buy anything from China or Russia or any other country where the Government has control of the manufacturing base, then rest assured that there will something untoward going on especially if it involves tech, from backdoors to harvesting data from users etc. BUT Facebook and Google are just as bad and GCHQ can eavesdrop and snoop on all our comms and data...nothing is safe in this tech world.
 
#6
As resistance is futile. I for one shall welcome our new Chinese masters, and am here to do their bidding, if any of them are reading this...;) This post was written by Wan Kin
Fixed
 
#7
Any word of protest from Assange or Snowdon against Chinese snooping?

Thought not!

GCHQ et al have to operate within the law, and the courts can order them to stop doing something. Do you think that applies to the intelligence services of the Chinese Communist Party or Putin's Russia?
 
#8
The Chinese are well placed to spy on the West. Just look at the number of Chinatowns around the world. A readymade support network. Considering most expat Chinese have relatives back in China, the PRC intelligence agencies can always screw the nut to get overseas expats to provide logistical support to agents.

I remember talking to an FBI agent in HK (pre-1997). He told me the PRC intelligence agencies targeted Taiwanese and Hong Kongers. Aim being to feed them into the US university system, get them into MIT and then the US defence sector. Play the long game to acquire defence tech.

Having worked for a Chinese company, I can tell you the observation regarding playing the long game is spot on.
 
#9
Having worked for a Chinese company, I can tell you the observation regarding playing the long game is spot on.
When Nixon visited China in the 1970s he asked Mao what he thought of the French Revolution. Mao paused for a long while and then said “it is too early to tell”. I suspect our descendants will look back at this period and ask why and how we let it happen.
 
#11
China - Interrigence Opelations

Thread title fixed.
 
#13
Some of us welcome our new Chinese overlords, I like Chinese

 
#14
Stereotypes I fear are true and China is a very patient beast.... Its history and internal narrative is all about the greed of the west and they understand, our democracies can be bought, with technology and the stupid expansion of integrated systems and cloud solutions mean they have a backdoor into everything.

Funny how Instagram happens to come down, whilst the hong kong people were amidst protest.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Better informed colleagues than I in the computer security issue make several points.
  1. China is the biggest source of state sponsored hacking. Why spend money researching your commercial competitors or their R&D, when you can just steal the information.
  2. China has has more (un)ethical hackers than we have. If we start a p!ssing contest, they'll bring more dicks to the table than we can.
  3. We can't speak as to the security of Chinese computer systems, but from first hand experience, there are multiple holes in Western commercial IT systems that can be exploited by state sponsored hackers.
Wordsmith
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#18
The Chinese are well placed to spy on the West. Just look at the number of Chinatowns around the world. A readymade support network. Considering most expat Chinese have relatives back in China, the PRC intelligence agencies can always screw the nut to get overseas expats to provide logistical support to agents.

I remember talking to an FBI agent in HK (pre-1997). He told me the PRC intelligence agencies targeted Taiwanese and Hong Kongers. Aim being to feed them into the US university system, get them into MIT and then the US defence sector. Play the long game to acquire defence tech.
The trouble with any intelligence service is that what appears paranoid to Ms Josie Omnibus is everyday tradecraft for people to whom it is just another day at work.

A good example is the late James Jesus Angleton....

Angleton thought that all secret intelligence agencies could be assumed to be penetrated by others, or, at least, that a reasonable chief of counterintelligence should assume so.[citation needed]

Angleton had direct experience of ways in which secret intelligence services could be penetrated.[14] There was the manipulation of the German services in World War II by means of Ultra; there was the direct penetration of the British services by the Cambridge Five and their indirect penetration of the American services by means of the liaison activities of Kim Philby, Donald Maclean and perhaps others, and there were the highly successful efforts of the American secret intelligence services in regard to allied, hostile and Third World services.

The combination of Angleton's close association with Philby and Philby's duplicity caused Angleton to double-check "potential problems". Philby was confirmed as a Soviet mole, when he eluded those sent to capture him and defected. Philby said that Angleton had been "a brilliant opponent" and a fascinating friend who seemed to be "catching on" before Philby's departure, thanks to CIA employee William King Harvey, a former Federal Bureau of Investigation agent, who had voiced his suspicions regarding Philby and others, who Angleton suspected were Soviet agents.

Angleton's position in the CIA, his close relationship with Richard Helms, in particular, his experience and character, made him particularly influential. As in all bureaucracies, this influence brought him the enmity of those who had different views. The conflict between the "Angletonians" and the "Anti-Angletonians" has played out in the public sphere generally in publications about the mole hunts and, in particular, in regard to two Soviet defectors (among many): Anatoliy Golitsyn and Yuri Nosenko.


Interesting thread. I look forward to more revelations.

All old hat so far soz
 
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#19
As resistance is futile. I for one shall welcome our new Chinese masters, and am here to do their bidding, if any of them are reading this...;)
Didn't realise you were Cardiff old bill....

 
#20
When Nixon visited China in the 1970s he asked Mao what he thought of the French Revolution. Mao paused for a long while and then said “it is too early to tell”. I suspect our descendants will look back at this period and ask why and how we let it happen.
I believe it was Zhou Enlai who made that remark and he was actually referring to the ongoing problems in France in 1968 not 1789.

Oddly enough Edmund Burke not only concisely assessed the ramifications of the French Revolution within six months of it breaking out but also accurately predicted what would follow, and yet no one ever talks about the inscrutable wisdom of Anglo-Irish Tories.

The Chinese pose a major challenge to the complacency of the western world but let's not get carried away about their superhuman powers, they have proven themselves to be absolute bell-ends when it comes to running their country in the past, they stuff up regularly, have done so in the past and will do so again in the future, just like us really.
 

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