China - and the dangerous drift to war in Asia

Why should it bother any Arrser - its not as if the Japs would be the 1st navy to name ships after famous victories
Because a tedious portion of the membership seem to feel that revelling in past victories is something that should only be done when a) it's us doing it or b) it doesn't involve us.
 
Because a tedious portion of the membership seem to feel that revelling in past victories is something that should only be done when a) it's us doing it or b) it doesn't involve us.
But that's back to my point viz Yars

The vast majority would get outraged over another nations naming conventions

As an aside I cant see why Tirpitz would be offensive anyway - Other than distracting Bomber command it didn't really do anything anyway
 
As an aside I cant see why Tirpitz would be offensive anyway - Other than distracting Bomber command it didn't really do anything anyway
Me neither. Naming a submarine U-47 would be much more of a wind-up.
 
But that's back to my point viz Yars

The vast majority would get outraged over another nations naming conventions

As an aside I cant see why Tirpitz would be offensive anyway - Other than distracting Bomber command it didn't really do anything anyway
I don’t believe anyone got their knickers in a twist when a German destroyer was called Rommel. Some people will take exception to perceived slights. Most will put it down to a nation recognising their History and jog on.
 
(...)Chinese tourists are going to be a major feature of the next 50 years, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Going to be a major feature? China are already the world's largest source market of tourists and the biggest spenders. Get your business ready - Canada-China Year of Tourism 2018
China is the world’s largest tourism source market and Chinese nationals are the largest spenders in international tourism.
They are Canada's third largest source of tourists, after the US and the UK. Many countries are making a big push to get more of that tourism business.

 

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
Fine with me after all we call ours
Ardent (spit at the French as we nicked the 1st 1)
Temeraire (spit at the French as we nicked the 1st 1)
Trafalgar (Spanish and French with that one)
London - how do you feel about that one - do you feel its a spit in the eye that the RN may well re use the name on the T26**


In fact I feel you are projecting your perceived slights over every tiny thing you think is anti Russian - because I dont see anyone getting upset of equipment names* particularly historic and traditional ones.


*Well apart from the Germans and the Typhoon name for the Eurofighter allegedly

**Think carefully about this
If it doesn't bother you - then its clear your comments Viz Kaga and Tirpitz were no more than puerile agitprop attempts to create a division where none exists
If it does bother you well then its clear your comments Viz Kaga and Tirpitz were no more than the puerile adolescent rantings of an infantile and nationalistic mind
It is interesting how did Japan's understand this act of naming:
Japan Military Discussions
YarS: "And she was taking part in the Pearl-Harbour party. Is it polite for "baka-gaijin" feelings? As I know, earlier you avoided to give such names to ships, didn't you? I can remember only "Ojasio" submarine."
Uzushio (Japan member):"yes but we are naming after ww2 ships its a pride of our navy. I don't think it polite for "Baka gaijin feelings" but I do not like how USA put limits on our military. we are sending Kaga there to remember Pearl Harbor attack."
 
It is interesting how did Japan's understand this act of naming:
Japan Military Discussions
YarS: "And she was taking part in the Pearl-Harbour party. Is it polite for "baka-gaijin" feelings? As I know, earlier you avoided to give such names to ships, didn't you? I can remember only "Ojasio" submarine."
Uzushio (Japan member):"yes but we are naming after ww2 ships its a pride of our navy. I don't think it polite for "Baka gaijin feelings" but I do not like how USA put limits on our military. we are sending Kaga there to remember Pearl Harbor attack."
Ah well 1 ill informed nationalist speaks to you that must make it fact.

Its just a shame your friend is unaware of the Soryu** that's been in service about 10 years or indeed the Urnyu
In fact one could almost believe the Use of Kagu is merely inline with a long standing naming convention, but having just been made aware of it you want it to have some significance


** Which in a previous life was just off Hawaii on 7 Dec 1941


Edit on reading your link it seems your determined to incite a flame war between US and Japanese posters -
Its equally clear they think you are a knob and aren't biting
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Back in the 60s the newly legit West German navy had two little cast-off ex-RN frigates called Scharnhorst and Gneisnau.
 

YarS

On ROPS
On ROPs
Is this scaremongering, or does he have point about Australia being rather unready for any trouble in the South China Sea having little fuel reserves
Australia have more that enough of Uranium. If she don't want to build nuclear energetic, but preffer to invest money is solary and wind freaks - it's a not problem of 'little fuel reserves', it's a problem of government incompetence.
 
China has recently outlined their plans for developing trade routes through the Arctic. China unveils plans for a 'Polar Silk Road' across the Arctic

China on Friday outlined its ambitions to extend President Xi Jinping's signature Belt and Road Initiative to the Arctic by developing shipping lanes opened up by global warming.

Releasing its first official Arctic policy white paper, China said it would encourage enterprises to build infrastructure and conduct commercial trial voyages, paving the way for Arctic shipping routes.

"China hopes to work with all parties to build a 'Polar Silk Road' through developing the Arctic shipping routes," said the paper, which is issued by the State Council Information Office.
The routes they are interested in appear to be those which go along the north coast of Russia to Europe. Russia has been promoting this as a commercial shipping route for some years now. This can shave up to 20 days off the time used for the route which goes through Suez Canal.
Shipping through the Northern Sea Route would shave almost 20 days off the regular time using the traditional route through the Suez Canal, the newspaper reported last month. COSCO Shipping has also previously sailed vessels through the Arctic's northeast passage.
China are also looking at developing the oil, gas, mining, fishing, and tourism potential in the area.
The white paper said China also eyes development of oil, gas, mineral resources and other non-fossil energies, fishing and tourism in the region. It said it would do so "jointly with Arctic States, while respecting traditions and cultures of the Arctic residents including the Indigenous peoples and conserving natural environment."
 
Is this scaremongering, or does he have point about Australia being rather unready for any trouble in the South China Sea having little fuel reserves
When the local RAAF base complains that its operations are limited because all avgas has been diverted to the power station due to a heatwave I would say its not far off.

All comes in via ship AFAIK and unless we convert all our assets to LPG, Solar and electric, nuclear or coal/steam we are doomed, doomed I tells you!

TBH I wouldn't put it past Australia to try and have the 'greenest' military in the world, we have power shortages but are sitting on huge reserves of good coal and Uranium.
 
When the local RAAF base complains that its operations are limited because all avgas has been diverted to the power station due to a heatwave I would say its not far off.

All comes in via ship AFAIK and unless we convert all our assets to LPG, Solar and electric, nuclear or coal/steam we are doomed, doomed I tells you!

TBH I wouldn't put it past Australia to try and have the 'greenest' military in the world, we have power shortages but are sitting on huge reserves of good coal and Uranium.
I think the problem in Australia's case is that it isn't worth anyone's while from a financial perspective to hold any reserves of fuel, generating capacity or transmission line capacity. It's all done on what makes the most money for shareholders. The government has decided to leave the issue up to the market, and "the market" doesn't care one way or the other about the defence of Australia.
 
I found the following story in one of the links referenced in a previous post. Are we sleepwalking to World War III?

It's from last July, but I don't recall it being posted before. The story is based on an interview with former Australian chief of defence Admiral Chris Barrie, but also references various books.

Australia is plunging headlong into catastrophe and we are utterly unprepared. In fact, we may be past the time when we can prepare.

The time-bomb is ticking and it will explode in our lifetimes.

All certainty will be lost, our economy will be devastated, our land seized, our system of government upended.
One of the books mentioned in the article compares the problem to that of the wars between Sparta and Athens in the classical Greek era. The important quote is "It was the rise of Athens and the fear this instilled in Sparta that made war inevitable".
Founding dean of the Harvard University Kennedy School, Graham Allison, fears the world is lurching towards conflict unseen since World War II.

He puts his case in a new book, Destined for War: Can America and China escape Thucydides' Trap?

Thucydides? He was the Greek Historian whose writings about war 2,000 years ago resonate still.

"It was the rise of Athens and the fear this instilled in Sparta that made war inevitable," he writes.
In this case it is the rise of China and the fear this instills in the US which will make war inevitable.

It isn't possible to summarise all of the essential points in the article, but I recommend reading it in full.
 
This is a follow-up to my previous on China's new Arctic policy, with a focus on what it means for Canada.
What does China's new Arctic policy mean for Canada?

The Chinese released a white paper describing their Arctic policy. This is viewed as significant, as the Chinese rarely release such policy documents.
On Friday, China released a white paper describing its Arctic policy in a rare public move.

(...) "I'm a little shocked," said University of Calgary associate professor Robert Huebert.

"The Chinese do not issue white papers. This clearly illustrated how important the Arctic is to the Chinese."
This is apparently an attempt to tread a fine line between respecting the territorial sovereignty of Arctic countries, and being in a position to gain from territorial disputes between those Arctic countries.
Experts say the policy is attempting to tread a line — between respecting the sovereignty of Arctic nations, like Canada and the United States, and leaving room to gain from disputes in international law.
The news report gives as an example of this the US attempts to encroach upon Canadian territory by insisting that certain Canadian internal waters are international territory.
For example, the United States views the Northwest Passage as an "international strait" while Canada sees it as "internal waters" — a semantic difference that could mean major changes in how the waterway is managed and who has the right to use it.
China refers to itself as a "near-Arctic state". This is a term which has no formal meeting, but has been used by other countries who attempt to declare an interest in the Arctic. China used this tactic to gain a position in the Arctic Council in 2013.
China refers to itself as a "near-Arctic state" throughout the policy document.

The term that has no formal legal meaning.

However, it's been used in the past by non-Arctic countries that were eager to gain Arctic Council Status.

China gained that status in 2013.
India has gone even further by claiming that their ancient geological connections to Antarctica make them a polar country.
India has taken that a step further when applying for observer status, saying that its prehistoric geological connection to Antarctica qualifies it as a polar nation.
Most of China's interests so far relate to commercial voyages across the north end of Russia (Russia have been promoting this trade route heavily).

However, last year the Chinese icebreaker Xue Long made a transit of the Arctic through Canadian waters.
Critics fear China's foray into Northwest Passage endangers Arctic sovereignty

China have said that access to Arctic shipping lanes is a core interest for them.
Huebert said China is especially interested in issues of sovereignty and access to shipping lanes, as growing and maintaining Arctic shipping is a "core Arctic interest."
I suspect that China see the Arctic as too important to ignore. Their main interest at this point appears to be shipping. The five countries around the Arctic Ocean (Canada, Denmark/Greenland, Norway, Russia, the USA) have been attempting to establish a set of norms which essentially divide up control of the Arctic amongst themselves while effectively excluding other countries from what would normally be international waters. Meanwhile, this is complicated by disputes between each of the Arctic countries (Russia versus Norway, Canada versus the US).

I suspect that China's main interest is ensuring that they have a place at the table if and when any deals amongst Arctic countries are struck.

Unlike the news story, I don't find China's involvement in the Arctic Council too surprising given the number of other countries involved who have no territorial connection to the Arctic. The list of observers at the council include:
  • France
  • Germany
  • Italy
  • Japan
  • The Netherlands
  • China
  • Poland
  • India
  • South Korea
  • Singapore
  • Spain
  • Switzerland
  • United Kingdom
 
One of the books mentioned in the article compares the problem to that of the wars between Sparta and Athens in the classical Greek era. The important quote is "It was the rise of Athens and the fear this instilled in Sparta that made war inevitable".


In this case it is the rise of China and the fear this instills in the US which will make war inevitable.

It isn't possible to summarise all of the essential points in the article, but I recommend reading it in full.
Yes, I have this book. Well worth it and I fear that China's CP rulers are not as wise as they think they are. Although it would not surprise me if they were patient enough to wait until they are powerful enough... but then again look at Fiery Cross Reef.
 

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