China - and the dangerous drift to war in Asia

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by sunnoficarus, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    I'm sure, that they wish to drill oil by themselves in Northen sea. But there will be no trading volumes of oil in the North Sea in 2050. There will be no oil from Middle East, and, may be, there will be no oil from Russia (at least for Brits). May be - they will drill for oil in the shelf of Malvines (on the Sea Lion oil field). But there is a question about position of Argentina and USA.
  2. If there is oil to be had in the world, the UK will have the money to buy it. If there is not oil to be had in sufficient quantity, then either the world will have learned to live without it or the world will have collapsed and any remaining oil will be worthless anyway, won't it?
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  3. It's a much less practical option for sure, but not impossible or entirely without precedent. The Japanese government would be unlikely to want more than a few warheads: there are only two or three realistic targets for what would be effectively a retaliatory attack.
    The biggest obstacle (other than the opposition to nuclear weapons by the vast majority of Japanese) is that Japan doesn't have a credible delivery vehicle.
    Of course four years of Trump and a further five of Xi could well have a profound impact on risk calculation and public opinion. We appear headed into waters unchartered since the 1940s.
  4. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    What kind of money will they have, and why do you think, that they get something for this money?

    No. Oil will be, but not for all. Our world is not a world of a free trade - there are sanctions and anti-sanctions, and wars, and corrupted goverments.
    Who will control Falkland islands (and shelf oil fields) in 2050 - UK or USA or Argentina/China? It is not a question for "economic analitics".
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  5. YarS

    YarS On ROPs

    Ask JAXA, may be, they have something better that "Epsilon" rocket.
    There are nothing "uncharted". Japans just losing their fear, as usual, and will be beaten one more time. If they want to return Macumai (Hokkaido in the Japan speak) to Russia - we will accept it. No problem.
    • Show again braincell Show again braincell x 1
  6. Taiwan announces U.S. itinerary for president, upsetting China
    Will she meet Trump and upset China even more?
    Mention also made of Xi trying to get a more 'unified China'
  7. IMG_20170108_185504_378.JPG
    The total area of China’s claims on other countries exceeds the size of modern China itself, but Beijing refuses to budge on its claims.

    Many are based on unsubstantiated (outside China) and unprecedented “historical precedents” dating back centuries.

    And while China only has land borders with 14 countries, it is claiming territory from at least 23 individual nations.

    These include Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei, maritime territory which is 1000 kilometres from the closest Chinese soil (well outside the internationally recognised 200 kilometre EEZ).

    The following is a list of China’s current claims against other countries, all of which it has made painfully clear it is willing to go to war over:


    Afghan province of Bahdashan (despite treaty of 1963, China still encroaches on Afghan territory).


    Bhutanese enclaves in Tibet, namely Cherkip Gompa, Dho, Dungmar, Gesur, Gezon, Itse Gompa, Khochar, Nyanri, Ringung, Sanmar, Tarchen and Zuthulphuk. Also Kula Kangri and mountainous areas to the west of this peak, plus the western Haa District of Bhutan


    South China Sea especially Spratly Islands


    China claims large areas of Burma on historical precedent (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368). There are unspecified border disputes with Burma.


    China has, on occasion, claimed parts of Cambodia on historical precedent (Ming Dynasty, 1368-1644)


    Aksai Chin (part of Jammu and Kashmir), Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal Shaksgam Valley, South Tibet (part of India-controlled Arunachal Pradesh), Trans-Karakoram Tract


    Parts of the South China Sea.


    Parts of the East China Sea, particularly the Senkaku Islands. Also, on occasion, the Ryukyu Islands, on the grounds that the completely independent Kingdom of Ryukyu was once a vassal state of China. The Kingdom of Ryukyu terminated tributary relations with China in 1874.


    There are continual unilateral claims by China on Kazakhstan territory, despite new agreements, in China’s favour, signed every few years.


    China claims the majority of Kyrgyzstan on the grounds that it was unfairly forced to cede the territory (which it had formerly conquered) to Russia in the 19th century.


    China claims large areas of Laos on historical precedent (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368)


    Parts of the South China Sea, particularly the Spratly Islands


    China claims all of Mongolia on historical precedent (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368). In fact, Mongolia, under Genghis Khan, occupied China.


    China claims parts of Nepal dating back to the Sino-Nepalese War in 1788-1792. China claims they are part of Tibet, therefore part of China.

    North Korea

    Baekdu Mountain and Jiandao. China has also on occasion claimed all of North Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-136).


    Territory is still unilaterally claimed by China, despite China signing numerous agreements.


    Parts of the South China Sea, particularly Scarborough Shoal and the Spratly Islands


    160,000 square kilometres still unilaterally claimed by China, despite China signing numerous agreements.


    Parts of the South China Sea.

    South Korea

    Parts of the East China Sea. China has also on occasion claimed all of South Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-136).


    China claims all of Taiwan, but particular disputes are: Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands, Scarborough Shoal, Senkaku Islands, parts of the South China Sea and the Spratly Islands.


    China claims parts of Tajikistan on historical precedent (Qing Dynasty, 1644-1912).


    China claims large parts of Vietnam on historical precedent (Ming Dynasty, 1368-1644). Also: Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands, parts of the South China Sea and the Spratly Islands.

    Additionally, China recently taunted Hillary Clinton about claiming territorial rights on Hawaii, and claimed that Chinese sailors had settled peacefully in Australia centuries before European discovery. And let’s not forget the supposed 1418 map that “proves” China discovered the Americas (and the entire world) long before Columbus.

    Territories Controlled by Chinese Dynasties:
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  8. You'll be able to post the official announcements of these claims to 'large parts of' Uncle Tom Cobblers, of course?

    About the only thing your map shows of relevance is that the official Chinese definition of China is considerably smaller than it was in 1949.
  9. China has too many new friends, it has no need to start a War. Strong Economic ties with Countries like Israel and others, makes more sense.
  10. but offer rich fishing grounds and may contain significant oil and natural gas reserves,[11][12]
  11. Sprattley Islands. That is.
  12. The Spratly Islands dispute is an ongoing territorial dispute between Brunei, China (People's Republic of China), Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam, concerning ownership of the Spratly Islands, a group of islands and associated "maritime features" (reefs, banks, cays, etc.) located in the South China Sea. The dispute is characterised by diplomatic stalemate and the employment of military pressure techniques (such as military occupation of disputed territory) in the advancement of national territorial claims. All except Brunei occupy some of the maritime features.

    There has been a sharp rise in media coverage owing mainly to China's increasingly vocal objection to the presence of American naval vessels transiting the area in order to assert the right to freedom of navigation within international waters.

    Most of the "maritime features" in this area have at least six names: The "International name", usually in English; the "Chinese name", sometimes different for PRC and ROC, (and also in different character-sets); the Vietnamese, Philippine and Malaysian names, and also, there are alternate names, (e.g. Spratly Island is also known as Storm Island), and sometimes names with "colonial" origins (French, Portuguese, Spanish, British, etc.).[1]

    The Spratly Islands are important for economic and strategic reasons. The Spratly area holds potentially significant, but largely unexplored, reserves of oil and natural gas; it is a productive area for world fishing; it is one of the busiest areas of commercial shipping traffic; and surrounding countries would get an extended continental shelf if their claims were recognised. In addition to economic incentives, the Spratlys sit astride major maritime trade routes to Northeast Asia, giving them added significance as positions from which to monitor maritime activity in the South China Sea and to potentially base and project military force from. In 2014, China drew increased international attention due to its dredging activities within the Spratlys, amidst speculation it is planning to further develop its military presence in the area.[2] In 2015 satellite imagery revealed that China was rapidly constructing an airfield on Fiery Cross Reef within the Spratlys whilst continuing its land reclamation activities at other sites.[3][4][5] Only China (PRC), Taiwan (ROC), and Vietnam have made claims based on historical sovereignty of the islands.[6] The Philippines, however, claims part of the area as its territory under UNCLOS, an agreement parts of which[7] have been ratified by the countries involved in the Spratly islands dispute.

    [1Reasons for the dispute
  13. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    As it happens today I picked up a well-thumbed paperback of Clancy's 1997 'SSN' (VVG so far) in which the US and China get drawn into a naval war after China impounds a US-flagged drilling ship near the Spratlys.

    SSN and other naval technicalities apart, which are well done even if written in broad Elmer, It's food for thought regarding the geopolitical stuff Even though it's by definition twenty years out of date I suspect some of the factors could still be valid.
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  14. It looks like a couple of new posters have just discovered Wikipedia.

    Rather amusingly, if we follow the List of territorial disputes - Wikipedia link, it appears (if we want to believe Wikipedia) that Taiwan makes territorial claims against North Korea, Kazakhstan, and Russia that Beijing does not (the latter having settled the disputes from their perspective). There we have it, the aggressively expansionist Taiwan is making territorial claims reaching as far as Kazakhstan, and the world seems powerless to stop them.

    Even more amusingly, there is an apparent parallel with the South China Sea dispute in the Caribbean, over a series of rocks and atolls which are claimed by Jamaica, Nicaragua, Haiti, and Honduras, and the United States. The American claims over these far distant rocks and atolls are apparently based on dubious mid to late 19th century claims by American guano miners on territories previously claimed by other states. Those of course are aside from American territorial claims on all or most of their more immediate neighbours.

    A list of territorial disputes means absolutely nothing on its own other than unfinished diplomatic business unless there is some reason to believe that the dispute will lead to war or other conflict.
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