China - and the dangerous drift to war in Asia

A very Interesting video on China.

I am not now, nor have ever been a conspiracist. I do however I find this video disturbingly conformational with what I have always believed on China, its ruthless drive to rule the world by any means, and complete disregard for human life.

 
I am not now, nor have ever been a conspiracist. I do however I find this video disturbingly conformational with what I have always believed on China, its ruthless drive to rule the world by any means, and complete disregard for human life.
Given that they've just savaged their economy to protect human life, that's a bold statement.

On a side note, I'm continually amazed at how many people raise Unrestricted Warfare as a supposed cornerstone of Chinese strategy given that a) it was written by a fairly junior officer and b) they don't seem to have actually read, let alone understood, it.
 
A very Interesting video on China.

I am not now, nor have ever been a conspiracist. I do however I find this video disturbingly conformational with what I have always believed on China, its ruthless drive to rule the world by any means, and complete disregard for human life.

The video says (paraphrased) "This book we are hinging our story on is being cited by conspiracy theorists. We're not conspiracy theorists ourselves, but here's our own conspiracy theory based on the book".

The video seems to think that ramping up production of vital pandemic medical supplies, just like every other country that has it's head screwed on the right way is doing, and taking steps to revive their economy, just like every other country is going to try to do, is evidence of some sort of unstated conspiracy to do something, although they're a bit vague on just what that something is.

WIONews are based in India, so perhaps they're used to governments who have difficulty putting their trousers on the right way around in the morning and see signs of competence in administration as being scarily like black magic. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to.

This wave of the pandemic has passed in China, and life is starting to get back to normal. **** me, I'm looking forward to the same happening here. I guess that makes me a neo-colonialist or something by Indian standards.
 

Yokel

LE
Just out of interest does anyone know what effect the COVID-19 outbreak is having on Chinese military readiness and their defence industry?

Are they still building warships and aircraft; carrying out major field exercises, and pushing their fleet into the wide Pacific, Indian Ocean, and beyond?
 
Given that they've just savaged their economy to protect human life, that's a bold statement.
If by Savaged you mean the deliberately screwed the planet over by holding back vital information about the Wuhan chinese virus and then secretly buying as much PPE as possible for their use only, and sending out defective material to countries suffering then Yeah I guess they did savage it.
 
I think something big is coming, WH press breifing was kicked off military themed tonight, every branch of the Military and DOJ,, lots of harsh words about swift retaliation to any chancers. Trump sounded quite serious.
It was drugs and COIN related, as well as Threats to US forces overseas.
Those are some serious assets being moved, at least what they discussed and what is being reported.

Somebody's money supply is getting cut off, I suspoect it might be close to home for the US.
i imagine any US politicians who have had their finger in the cartel or human/drug trafficking pie are going to have twitchy arses tonight with visions of being beaten by god fearing yank bootnecks at Gitmo lol.

It's on Youtube.


quell North Korea missle threats
 
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Given that they've just savaged their economy to protect human life, that's a bold statement.

On a side note, I'm continually amazed at how many people raise Unrestricted Warfare as a supposed cornerstone of Chinese strategy given that a) it was written by a fairly junior officer and b) they don't seem to have actually read, let alone understood, it.
I too dismissed most of this as the usual conspiracy theory but I was nonetheless shocked by the relatively tiny numbers of infections/fatalities in Beijing and Shanghai.

Hunan is a pretty big city, it is if I am not mistaken a major transit hub, the infection spread rapidly from there all around the world in a matter of a month or two and yet it barely impacted on the two biggest, most important cities in China, just a few hundred miles up and down the road.

That was an eye-opener, so the Chinese government was initially caught flat-footed by the outbreak, tried to cover it up (just as most governments in the world would have done, I make no specific allegation against China), it didn't impose its much vaunted lockdown for weeks and yet it managed to as effectively contain the virus in its two biggest cities as if they were Singapore.

Something seems very odd there.
 
Any theory that there is something "odd" about the figures in China will also have to explain why the figures in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, are quite similar, despite being very close to China and having very close links and the epidemic showing up early there. Are they all in it together? Is the yellow peril out to get us?


Let's look at the numbers from that group of 5 countries (or region in the case of Hong Kong):
  • Japan - 2,384 cases, or 19 cases per million population.
  • Taiwan - 329 cases, or 14 per million.
  • China - 81,554 case, or 57 per million.
  • Hong Kong - 766 cases, or 102 per million.
  • South Korea - 9,976 cases, or 195 per million.
So China's numbers are right in the middle between Japan and Taiwan on the low end, and Hong Kong and South Korea on the other end in that group. They don't stand out as particularly low or high compared to their neighbours.

Compare to the following group of 5:
  • Spain - 104,118 cases or 2,277 cases per million population.
  • Switzerland - 17,768 cases, or 2,053 per million.
  • Italy - 110,574 cases, or 1,820 per million.
  • Belgium - 13,964 cases, or 1,205 per million.
  • Austria - 10,711 cases, or 1,189 per million.

We have a group of 5 countries in east Asia, all with close trade and travel links, all with public health systems capable of detecting virus outbreaks, all close to the centre of the pandemic origin, and yet all showing very low rates of infection.

On the other hand we have another group of 5 countries, also with close trade and travel links, together with modern public health systems, all far from the centre of the outbreak, and yet the outbreak spread rapidly and widely there.

So why the difference? Seriously, if China's numbers are the result of "it's all a cover up", then explain Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong? Are people seriously saying that Japan are "hiding" mountains of corpses too, because the Japanese don't want to lose face? Because exactly where their argument leads.

All these numbers are out there on the same lists, and yet the tin foil hat brigade are seizing on China's numbers while their eyes apparently refuse to focus on Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Somehow those other countries disappear down the memory hole when the subject comes up, despite their being the countries with the greatest apparent relevance in any discussion about this.

Some people need to get a ****ing grip on themselves, as their self-isolation seems to be leading to psychotic behaviour.
 
If by Savaged you mean the deliberately screwed the planet over by holding back vital information about the Wuhan chinese virus and then secretly buying as much PPE as possible for their use only, and sending out defective material to countries suffering then Yeah I guess they did savage it.
What does any of that have to do with the effect of the PRC's population protection measures on their domestic economy?

Oh, wait. Nothing, you just wanted a bit of a rant. Right.
 

Mesaboogie

Swinger
Any theory that there is something "odd" about the figures in China will also have to explain why the figures in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, are quite similar, despite being very close to China and having very close links and the epidemic showing up early there. Are they all in it together? Is the yellow peril out to get us?


Let's look at the numbers from that group of 5 countries (or region in the case of Hong Kong):
  • Japan - 2,384 cases, or 19 cases per million population.
  • Taiwan - 329 cases, or 14 per million.
  • China - 81,554 case, or 57 per million.
  • Hong Kong - 766 cases, or 102 per million.
  • South Korea - 9,976 cases, or 195 per million.
So China's numbers are right in the middle between Japan and Taiwan on the low end, and Hong Kong and South Korea on the other end in that group. They don't stand out as particularly low or high compared to their neighbours.

Compare to the following group of 5:
  • Spain - 104,118 cases or 2,277 cases per million population.
  • Switzerland - 17,768 cases, or 2,053 per million.
  • Italy - 110,574 cases, or 1,820 per million.
  • Belgium - 13,964 cases, or 1,205 per million.
  • Austria - 10,711 cases, or 1,189 per million.

We have a group of 5 countries in east Asia, all with close trade and travel links, all with public health systems capable of detecting virus outbreaks, all close to the centre of the pandemic origin, and yet all showing very low rates of infection.

On the other hand we have another group of 5 countries, also with close trade and travel links, together with modern public health systems, all far from the centre of the outbreak, and yet the outbreak spread rapidly and widely there.

So why the difference? Seriously, if China's numbers are the result of "it's all a cover up", then explain Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong? Are people seriously saying that Japan are "hiding" mountains of corpses too, because the Japanese don't want to lose face? Because exactly where their argument leads.

All these numbers are out there on the same lists, and yet the tin foil hat brigade are seizing on China's numbers while their eyes apparently refuse to focus on Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Somehow those other countries disappear down the memory hole when the subject comes up, despite their being the countries with the greatest apparent relevance in any discussion about this.

Some people need to get a ****ing grip on themselves, as their self-isolation seems to be leading to psychotic behaviour.
So isn't the question then why is so much worse in Europe than in Asia if we have comparable systems? I can't answer that question sufficiently but i can make a guess. I think Asian countries were more prepared having been exposed to SARS (especially South Korea who had clear plans in place and have dealt with this the best).

But people are right to be pissed at China given the evidence of this being covered up at least in the initial stages
 
If by Savaged you mean the deliberately screwed the planet over by holding back vital information about the Wuhan chinese virus and then secretly buying as much PPE as possible for their use only, and sending out defective material to countries suffering then Yeah I guess they did savage it.
Not 'just that', but also doing some panic-buying of their own. Of course now they can sell these items back at profit, but that's capitalism for you.

 
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Just out of interest does anyone know what effect the COVID-19 outbreak is having on Chinese military readiness and their defence industry?

Are they still building warships and aircraft; carrying out major field exercises, and pushing their fleet into the wide Pacific, Indian Ocean, and beyond?
I'd imagine that once this is over and the rest of the world start to buy stuff that's labelled, 'Made Anywhere Else but China', and it become a pariah state, they'll simply start taking without asking.

They've not learnt a thing - wet markets are back open selling bats and pangolins. Most thinnk theyve lied about the numbers, and it will become common knowledge how they bought up vital PPE under false pretences before it really hit internationally.

They are also going to want payback for their soft power investments, I'd not be surprised to see armed repatriation of funds.

Be interesting to see how involved Russia get.
 
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So isn't the question then why is so much worse in Europe than in Asia if we have comparable systems? I can't answer that question sufficiently but i can make a guess. I think Asian countries were more prepared having been exposed to SARS (especially South Korea who had clear plans in place and have dealt with this the best).
For my money it's partly the experience of SARS leaving governments more practiced in the specific measure needed but there's a more fundamental explanation in East Asian governing culture.

Simply put, the Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese people expect competence in government and have low tolerance for its lack, which in turn shapes the level of preparation their governments undertake.

There's also the aspect that people in these countries generally take more personal responsibility for the well-being of the group - e.g. wearing facemasks to protect everybody else.
 

Mesaboogie

Swinger
For my money it's partly the experience of SARS leaving governments more practiced in the specific measure needed but there's a more fundamental explanation in East Asian governing culture.

Simply put, the Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese people expect competence in government and have low tolerance for its lack, which in turn shapes the level of preparation their governments undertake.

There's also the aspect that people in these countries generally take more personal responsibility for the well-being of the group - e.g. wearing facemasks to protect everybody else.
I would agree they are less individualistic societies. Sounds like a stereotype but it has truth to it. Hopefully this will be a lesson to us for the future. South Korea must be the example to follow with there rigorous testing program. It will be interesting to see what happens to Sweden because they seem to be bucking the trend and not implementing lock downs like the rest of us.
 
South Korea must be the example to follow with there rigorous testing program.
I would say Taiwan as they've managed to not only keep their infection and death rates astonishingly low but done so without bringing the nation crashing to a halt.

The key points if their response have been effective screening, good public education, early mobilisation of (adequate) state resources and the aforementioned personal responsibility for the common weal.
 
So isn't the question then why is so much worse in Europe than in Asia if we have comparable systems? I can't answer that question sufficiently but i can make a guess. I think Asian countries were more prepared having been exposed to SARS (especially South Korea who had clear plans in place and have dealt with this the best).

But people are right to be pissed at China given the evidence of this being covered up at least in the initial stages
See my reply below. It could be that the solution to having prevented this was in front of our eyes all along, but we wouldn't listen because we insisted that we knew better and had nothing to learn from anyone else.
 

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